Ferrari Power Unit

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
ClaudiuC
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit

Post by ClaudiuC » Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:07 pm

etusch wrote:
Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:03 pm
Could Ferrari get limit of current architecture?
From pitpass
[In the wake of the technical failures that have effectively killed off Sebastian Vettel's and Ferrari's 2017 title hopes, Mercedes boss Toto Wolff suggests the team may be paying the price for its massive step forward this year.

Indeed, having looked strong in pre-season testing, though never entirely showing its hand, Ferrari took victory in the season opener in Melbourne and again in Bahrain a few weeks later. And while Mercedes remains the class of the field, there is no doubt that as recently as Singapore the Italian team has given its German rivals a run for their money.
But how can you reach your premise based on what Toto said? It simply doesn't follow from the quote that you've mentioned that Ferrari is hitting the limit of the current architecture... not in a logical way at least.

etusch
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit

Post by etusch » Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:51 pm

ClaudiuC wrote:
Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:07 pm
etusch wrote:
Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:03 pm
Could Ferrari get limit of current architecture?
From pitpass
[In the wake of the technical failures that have effectively killed off Sebastian Vettel's and Ferrari's 2017 title hopes, Mercedes boss Toto Wolff suggests the team may be paying the price for its massive step forward this year.

Indeed, having looked strong in pre-season testing, though never entirely showing its hand, Ferrari took victory in the season opener in Melbourne and again in Bahrain a few weeks later. And while Mercedes remains the class of the field, there is no doubt that as recently as Singapore the Italian team has given its German rivals a run for their money.
But how can you reach your premise based on what Toto said? It simply doesn't follow from the quote that you've mentioned that Ferrari is hitting the limit of the current architecture... not in a logical way at least.
I am just asking. Toto is not referrence for Ferrari engine. Maybe any engine. But if honda and renault see the end of development potential, after some time these two ( ferrari and mercedes) must see end of development at some point. Maybe he is talking based on what they lived with their engine.

ringo
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit

Post by ringo » Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:08 pm

Kimi's engine worked fine in Suzuka, so no there are not at the limits.
I think its just a quality issue; or lack of accounting for a detail such as high temperature or vibration in a particular area on the engine.
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hurril
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit

Post by hurril » Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:50 pm

If anything: Ferrari seem to really really have their --- together.

Jolle
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit

Post by Jolle » Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:36 pm

ringo wrote:
Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:08 pm
Kimi's engine worked fine in Suzuka, so no there are not at the limits.
I think its just a quality issue; or lack of accounting for a detail such as high temperature or vibration in a particular area on the engine.
Mercedes went trough the same kind of non-performance-part related issues in 2014/2015. It's probably part of the big overhaul of the organisation and procedures. Don't underestimate what a few management changes in a relative small about of time mean for an organisation of almost 1000 people. We here focus on a few people normally, but they are really big companies with lots of changes, it takes a bit of time to get it all working. My advise would be to analyse and build further and give the teams time to reach their level of competence (normally takes around 9-12 months to be fully competent within a new surrounding)

PlatinumZealot
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit

Post by PlatinumZealot » Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:25 am

They will start X-raying the spark plugs at the factory before sending out now i suspect.
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dren
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit

Post by dren » Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:42 am

It is a Fiat, it should be expected, right? I'm curious to see if Ferrari overreacts or does what is needed and fixes the problem.
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bosyber
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit

Post by bosyber » Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:39 pm

dren wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:42 am
It is a Fiat, it should be expected, right? I'm curious to see if Ferrari overreacts or does what is needed and fixes the problem.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ferr ... 64410/?s=1 ... Getting a chemistry/metal expert for quality control ( 8) :D Materials Science to the rescue, sorry) seems like close to that 'does what is needed' stuff to me. Oh, and I have to say that personally, I'm also quite happy it's another woman at a high profile engineering position in F1.

NL_Fer
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit

Post by NL_Fer » Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:51 pm

PlatinumZealot wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:25 am
They will start X-raying the spark plugs at the factory before sending out now i suspect.

Do you suspect a manufacturing fault of the plug itself?

Would it not be possible that the damage was caused by to allowing to much knock during Q3? I read in another thread, that they allow a little knock on certain times. Just to push he ice a bit ver the limit, cautiously monitoring the amount and severity of the knock.

ringo
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit

Post by ringo » Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:50 am

Hmm well the plugs may be designed to take some of that knock?

What are the best materials to use for plugs?
For an engine that sees frequent plug changed would the be more focus on durability and toughness than say corrosion and degradation of spark quality?
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ripper
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit

Post by ripper » Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:31 am

Some rumors about Ferrari's PU

https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/ferra ... he-964570/

- Spark plug failure might be the consequence of something else
- Sassi started together with AVL an ambitious plan for 2018 PU: to design a reliable PU with 50 more HP
- This new PU started to had reliability issues on test bench, the failures didn't happen during longevity tests, but much earlier (much less than 5 GP)
- Original plan was to adopt an "earlier version" (or the same version, i'm not 100% sure) of 2018 PU as 2017 EVO4 engine, because 2018 PU should have lasted much more than the 5 GP needed for 2017
- This plan was changed because this new PU didn't match required reliability checks, so they adopted a "plan B"
- EVO4 is a kind of EVO3bis, with some extremized concepts that could have reduced reliability
- Motorsport hasn't any information about Suzuka's problem causes: they don't know if the cracked were created by more turbo pressure or if less oil burnt gave this problem.
- It is possible that engine failures happen after Q2 and Q3 because qualy mode with less oil (and thus less antidetonators) stresses too much the engine and it is possible that the spark plug was "dirtied"

etusch
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit

Post by etusch » Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:00 pm

50 hp additional power for 2018? That's huge improvement.

ripper
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit

Post by ripper » Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:06 pm

Well IF it is true it would be a huge jump, but if you consider that MER pu has already more or less 20 HP more and still has many development months ahead, those supposed 50 hp might be sufficient "just" to be on par with the Germans. Assuming that they don't have other aces in the sleeve

hurril
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit

Post by hurril » Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:46 pm

ripper wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:06 pm
Well IF it is true it would be a huge jump, but if you consider that MER pu has already more or less 20 HP more and still has many development months ahead, those supposed 50 hp might be sufficient "just" to be on par with the Germans. Assuming that they don't have other aces in the sleeve
Where did you get those 20hp from?

CriXus
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit

Post by CriXus » Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:57 pm

ripper wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:06 pm
Well IF it is true it would be a huge jump, but if you consider that MER pu has already more or less 20 HP more and still has many development months ahead, those supposed 50 hp might be sufficient "just" to be on par with the Germans. Assuming that they don't have other aces in the sleeve
Most likely 10 hp more!
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