Canadian GP 2008

For ease of use, there is one thread per grand prix where you can discuss everything during that specific GP weekend. You can find these threads here.

Post Wed Jun 11, 2008 6:03 pm

The fact is Lewis Hamilton is a very talented driver. He is however young and inexperienced. If you listened to the way he talks and what he has to say you really get the sense that he is immature. Read his auto biography and you will know what I am talking about. The fact he wrote it in the first place is presumptuous. All LH has to do is accept himself and not try to be or act like something greater than what he is. I feel that the reason he makes so many bad mistakes is he because he loses focus due to his mind wandering and starting to dream of the glorious accomplishments that will come his way. Then suddenly boom you’re off in the pit lane gravel when the championship was in your grasp or 'I can’t believe I hit that button on my steering wheel' and lose 10 places, or 'why are these two cars not moving in front of me' and whack! I get the sense that LH is always trying to be something other than who he is when he talks, always trying to say the right things. This is why Kimi is so likeable for Ferrari and non Ferrari fans alike. Kimi is just Kimi he never tries to be anything more or less. He started racing at a relatively late age, he is diverse and talented in other activities. Not afraid to just be himself (Think Gorilla suit). Perhaps it is because LH was bred by his father and Mclaren at a young age to be a race driver that he somehow loses sight on reality. Perhaps a bit too pampered, a kind of prima donna. I want to like this guy, he is ultra talented, but until he matures a little I just can’t. Maybe all these seemingly dumb errors he makes will make him realize that he is not all great. Maybe that it will toughen him up. Make him a man. And then he can become the great champion he dreams of being. But until this happens he just comes off as a 'wiener' even when he is atop the podium. And I just can’t stand watching him, or his daddy at every race.
dgrosky
 
Joined: 25 Apr 2008

Post Wed Jun 11, 2008 7:20 pm

well said and probably a good reason for up and coming drivers to start in lower teams

so true with his old man, the media treat him like he has some inside knowledge
when he is just some random bloke without a clue
..?
nae
 
Joined: 28 Mar 2006

Post Wed Jun 11, 2008 7:32 pm

dgrosky wrote:The fact is Lewis Hamilton is a very talented driver. He is however young and inexperienced. If you listened to the way he talks and what he has to say you really get the sense that he is immature. Read his auto biography and you will know what I am talking about. The fact he wrote it in the first place is presumptuous. All LH has to do is accept himself and not try to be or act like something greater than what he is. I feel that the reason he makes so many bad mistakes is he because he loses focus due to his mind wandering and starting to dream of the glorious accomplishments that will come his way. Then suddenly boom you’re off in the pit lane gravel when the championship was in your grasp or 'I can’t believe I hit that button on my steering wheel' and lose 10 places, or 'why are these two cars not moving in front of me' and whack! I get the sense that LH is always trying to be something other than who he is when he talks, always trying to say the right things. This is why Kimi is so likeable for Ferrari and non Ferrari fans alike. Kimi is just Kimi he never tries to be anything more or less. He started racing at a relatively late age, he is diverse and talented in other activities. Not afraid to just be himself (Think Gorilla suit). Perhaps it is because LH was bred by his father and Mclaren at a young age to be a race driver that he somehow loses sight on reality. Perhaps a bit too pampered, a kind of prima donna. I want to like this guy, he is ultra talented, but until he matures a little I just can’t. Maybe all these seemingly dumb errors he makes will make him realize that he is not all great. Maybe that it will toughen him up. Make him a man. And then he can become the great champion he dreams of being. But until this happens he just comes off as a 'wiener' even when he is atop the podium. And I just can’t stand watching him, or his daddy at every race.


Definitive. =D>
bhall
 
Joined: 28 Feb 2006

Post Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:51 pm

dgrosky wrote:The fact is Lewis Hamilton is a very talented driver. He is however young and inexperienced. If you listened to the way he talks and what he has to say you really get the sense that he is immature. Read his auto biography and you will know what I am talking about. The fact he wrote it in the first place is presumptuous. All LH has to do is accept himself and not try to be or act like something greater than what he is. I feel that the reason he makes so many bad mistakes is he because he loses focus due to his mind wandering and starting to dream of the glorious accomplishments that will come his way. Then suddenly boom you’re off in the pit lane gravel when the championship was in your grasp or 'I can’t believe I hit that button on my steering wheel' and lose 10 places, or 'why are these two cars not moving in front of me' and whack! I get the sense that LH is always trying to be something other than who he is when he talks, always trying to say the right things. This is why Kimi is so likeable for Ferrari and non Ferrari fans alike. Kimi is just Kimi he never tries to be anything more or less. He started racing at a relatively late age, he is diverse and talented in other activities. Not afraid to just be himself (Think Gorilla suit). Perhaps it is because LH was bred by his father and Mclaren at a young age to be a race driver that he somehow loses sight on reality. Perhaps a bit too pampered, a kind of prima donna. I want to like this guy, he is ultra talented, but until he matures a little I just can’t. Maybe all these seemingly dumb errors he makes will make him realize that he is not all great. Maybe that it will toughen him up. Make him a man. And then he can become the great champion he dreams of being. But until this happens he just comes off as a 'wiener' even when he is atop the podium. And I just can’t stand watching him, or his daddy at every race.


I think it all comes down to weak personal management. AH is not an experienced manager. He is probably flying by the seat of his pants. He may also be caught up in his son's dreams that he himself has no cold, objective advice to give his son. So many young talents from the past who have had weak management have floundered from one bad publicity story to another. AH definitely has his son's best intentions in mind and you cannot fault him for trying, but at the end of the day it would be difficult to separate business from emotion. It might be difficult to tell your son to be humble and contrite especially to a rival and not feel your son is groveling.
RedMaple
 
Joined: 5 Mar 2008
Location: Maple, Canada

Post Thu Jun 12, 2008 3:47 pm

Spencer, "had they not been racing out the pits"
Seriously, FO man, this is racing, this is what we want. ffs...


Bizadfar, I think you've gotten the wrong end of the stick, I never complained that they shouldn't be racing out of the pits. In fact I LIKE to see that, I think its a particularly exciting part of the racing.
I was only refering to a theory of mine that because Kimi & Robert were racing to get out of the pits ahead of eachother Lewis wrongly assumed that everything was "as normal" and proceeded to chase after them, in doing so failing to notice them slowing and he stuck the back of them as he wasn't watching for the red light (something that I do not dispute was wrong on his part). I'm not trying to say that it's Kimi or Robert fault either. I've always said the blame lies 100% with Hamilton, I don't dispute that, I don't think the blame can be placed anywhere else or that anybody else can be held responsible. And I agree he should be penalised - although I think 5 grid places is enough, obviously however my own bias will effect that.

Conceptual wrote:But it is ok to take responsibility from your favorite driver and dilute it amongst other drivers from other times, Spence... I remember you doing something similar during the Stepney-gate saga.

Taking responsibility by pointing out others mistakes is a childs game. I commend you on your proficiency at it, it shows a lifelong commitment to perecting it!


At no point did I intend to try and "take responsibility away from hamilton" Chris, if I did so then I apologise for not making my feeling clearer. As I said above I feel all the blame lies with Hamilton. (Although I do still think that in ALL cirmumstances like this the team should be on the radio - at the end of the day though reponsibility for obeying a red light lies with the person behind the wheel) And I never tried to distribute the blame to those commiting previous offences.

In those comments I simply meant to highlight that others have made mistakes in the past, maybe not exactly the same, and yes Hamiltons was worse than Kimi's - I do however see similarities into why in both circumstances the drivers made the mistakes they made (pushing after a safety car period). I wasn't trying to say "Look, Kimi made a mistake at Monaco so Hamilton's just the same leave him be." I was just pointing out that mistakes do happen.

The reason I was sticking up for Hamilton is because whenever a high profile driver makes a mistake all the haters have a field day, everytime schumi did, the schumi bashers had a ball, the Kimi-bashers did the same after Monaco and I responded in a similar (but less vocal) way about Kimi's accident, I said "Yes he made a mistake, but everybody does, that doesn't mean he should be penailised" so when I say that about Kimi it goes unnoticed, when I say "Lewis made a mistake" and agree he should get a penalty of some sort I'm labeled and as an immature and biased nobody.

Yes, Chis, I refer to the past a lot, I guess maybe because lessons learnt from the past have a lot of relevance to how we deal with cirumstances in the present, (we should all learn from our mistakes and actions in the past). During stepney-gate I refered to how other teams spy, yes, whats wrong with that? Its not a lie, just because it happened in the past doesn't mean it didn't happen, and therefore one can still use these incidences as a point of reference, which is all I was trying to do.

Finally I fail to see how unnessecary comments, i.e calling me childish, makes your behaviour any more mature than my own supposed immaturity that you so willingly point out. Treat others how you'd like to be treated yourself, if you want to call me names, don't then complain in your very next post about Bizadfar calling you a "dumbass".

The whole point in a forum is that people can express their own opinions, and we have a right to do so, but lets be civil please. I don't participate in many forums because they are full of people who do nothing but throw insuts at eachother, this forum has always been, and I hope always will be, different than that. I never try to insult others here, and I'd like to think that that sort of behaviour is returned in favour.

If my comments did offend you in some way Chris then I'm sorry.
Silence is golden when you don't know a good answer.
Spencifer_Murphy
 
Joined: 11 Apr 2004
Location: London, England, UK

Post Thu Jun 12, 2008 4:03 pm

Spencifer_Murphy wrote:...The whole point in a forum is that people can express their own opinions, and we have a right to do so, but lets be civil please. I don't participate in many forums because they are full of people who do nothing but throw insuts at eachother, this forum has always been, and I hope always will be, different than that. ....


regardless of who is right or wrong this is a very good point. I hope that others will support this. I certainly do. everybody is entitled to his opinion and it never hurts to put it down in writing. sometimes we learn a whole lot by defending our opinions. some have the honesty to admit when they were wrong and thats great to see. some just quietly take the learning away and do not talk about it. that is also ok in my view. we should not aim to have uniform opinions but a high standard of intellectual honesty. if someone is having unpopular opinions but great fairness in discussion I do appreciate this more than someone telling me I'm right. always attack the post, never the poster.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)
WhiteBlue
 
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Location: WhiteBlue Country

Post Mon Jun 16, 2008 11:35 am

Just a quck word to say congratulations to BMW. My leaving for LM had prevented me to comment the race.
Note that Heidfeld was very good, he could have gone for the win egoistically, but showed he's a very good team player.

Pure rant following, sorry:

The TV TF1 channel is buying exclusive F1 rights for France, just to prevent people from watching it. The streaming links posted here didn't work for the race, so I had to run to my fathers house to whatch eurosport, missing the first quarter of the race and acting rude with my family (I invited myself by force to whatch GP while there was guests, and was very angry so everyone must have thought I was an uneducated brat). A bitter experience, one more to put on the account of Nationalist TF1 channel. (Fortunately there isn't finger showing smiley available, as I would have insert one here for sure)
vyselegend
 
Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Location: Paris, France

Post Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:42 am

Spencifer_Murphy wrote:Although I do still think that in ALL cirmumstances like this the team should be on the radio - at the end of the day though reponsibility for obeying a red light lies with the person behind the wheel


I may or may not agree with the rest of your post, but, like you, I don't understand why the engineer isn't shouting to Lewis (or whoever) "watch out the lights!". We had Montoya black-flagged in 2005, and then Massa and Fisi black-flagged too in 2007. And then in 2008 we have the collisions of Rosberg and Hamilton, which would have been black-flagged otherwise. I understand the engineers are constantly reminding the drivers of the formation lap routine (i.e. heat the tires, engine map X, fuel mixture y, differential setting z...). So, if I were the track engineer of anybody, I'd sure be telling him "lights may be red, possible cars stopped on the pitlane exit". And not once or twice. Because it has happened more than once or twice.

Vyselegend wrote:The TV TF1 channel is buying exclusive F1 rights for France, just to prevent people from watching it.


Doesn't TF1 already have the F1 rights in France? Living near the border, we usually switch to french coverage when Tele5 goes to advertising, although it could be another french channel (not Antenne 2). In any case, as you mentioned, last race wasn't broadcast live, so we switched to german RTL. Also, does eurosport really broadcast F1 races? Is it everywhere or does it depend on the country?
I am not amazed by F1 cars in Monaco. I want to see them driving in the A8 highway: Variable radius corners, negative banking, and extreme narrowings that Tilke has never dreamed off. Oh, yes, and "beautiful" weather tops it all.

"Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future." Niels Bohr
Miguel
 
Joined: 17 Apr 2008
Location: San Sebastian (Spain)

Post Tue Jun 17, 2008 10:43 am

In Europe is sure makes sense to have digital satellite TV. I even retain the capability to receive Hot Bird channels but it is not adding considerably to FTA f1 options at the moment.

Apparently for the technically adept it isn't a big deal to view TV channels like ORF. it is estimated that some 50% of German Premiere viewers over the last 8 years have used software based access.

Internet based access will necessarily increase with broadband booming. one of the concerns there is the vulnerability to viruses when the firwall is becoming more like a camouflage net due to the P2p software.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)
WhiteBlue
 
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Location: WhiteBlue Country

Post Tue Jun 17, 2008 11:14 am

WhiteBlue wrote:Internet based access will necessarily increase with broadband booming. one of the concerns there is the vulnerability to viruses when the firwall is becoming more like a camouflage net due to the P2p software.


I'm sorry, WhiteBlue, but I don't really understand what you are trying to say here. I've never watched TV through the net. Does it require any kind of P2P-like data sharing? Video streaming is otherwise pretty straightforward, and works fine in free software such as VLC (good for us penguin people).
I am not amazed by F1 cars in Monaco. I want to see them driving in the A8 highway: Variable radius corners, negative banking, and extreme narrowings that Tilke has never dreamed off. Oh, yes, and "beautiful" weather tops it all.

"Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future." Niels Bohr
Miguel
 
Joined: 17 Apr 2008
Location: San Sebastian (Spain)

Post Tue Jun 17, 2008 11:53 am

obviously streaming F1 to the global public without build in reginal restrictions is in breach of the licensing agreements. FOM only allows certain terretories for internet services. the most common way to overcome this is p2p software which again gives rise to other concerns.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)
WhiteBlue
 
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Location: WhiteBlue Country

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