European GP 2008

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Tehillim
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Re: Grand Prix of Europe 2008

Postby Tehillim » Sun Aug 24, 2008 6:14 pm

A dull race, Massa too fast for Hamilton, Hamilton for Kubica and Kubica for the rest. Glad to see Massa didn't get penalised, it was a well-deserved win jeopardised by a silly pointless error from the team.

I really like the circuit, but there wasn't a great deal of overtaking, DC on the outside of Piquet looked like the best move (unfortunately followed up by his boneheaded attempt against Sutil).

Sad to see so many in the crowd booing Hamilton, apparently he had felt so ill McLaren had put De La Rosa on standby, he earns a 2nd and gets that response? It's more appropriate to a football match than an F1 race.

Great to see Toyota looking so strong this season, after spending years underachieving. Strong drives from both drivers.

Ciro Pabón
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Re: Grand Prix of Europe 2008

Postby Ciro Pabón » Sun Aug 24, 2008 7:11 pm

I notice a certain air of disappointment. I enjoyed the race, and unlike Donskar grandma, my mom (who's 75, but has been senile since she was like 25, if you ask me) was on the edge of her seat for the last 15 laps or so.

Massa's supporters couldn't be more happy. I guess this will not end the bashing, but it's a beginning. Who knows, another brazilian could be WDC. It's only a chance: after all the world is unfair, but not often in our favor. Today, oh, today, South America ruled. Sweet, sweet day. :)
Ciro

ben_watkins
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Re: Grand Prix of Europe 2008

Postby ben_watkins » Sun Aug 24, 2008 8:26 pm

Anyone else notice that Massa and Kimi, from their first stops onwards were not using the front wheel fairings/frizbees?

I thought they were designed to "improve brake cooling" but it seemed that they took them off to help keep their brakes cool due to the hard 5G+ braking at this new circuit....
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Moanlower
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Re: Grand Prix of Europe 2008

Postby Moanlower » Sun Aug 24, 2008 9:03 pm

Where can be seen who will use a fresh engine at Spa and how it stands with gearboxes ?
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MattF1
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Re: Grand Prix of Europe 2008

Postby MattF1 » Sun Aug 24, 2008 9:07 pm

ben_watkins wrote:Anyone else notice that Massa and Kimi, from their first stops onwards were not using the front wheel fairings/frizbees?

I thought they were designed to "improve brake cooling" but it seemed that they took them off to help keep their brakes cool due to the hard 5G+ braking at this new circuit....


Ferrari didn't use them in canada either, suggests to me that they are not (ferrari at least) used for what they state.

gcdugas
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Re: Grand Prix of Europe 2008

Postby gcdugas » Sun Aug 24, 2008 9:07 pm

woohoo wrote:But overall the race was boring. :(
Apart from the two-three first corners of the race, there was no passing.
It was another Hungary circuit. Id rather have Long Beach back...


There was no race, only a parade. The circuit sucks. Zero overtaking. I looked like a CART track... cheezy but it was hyper-sanitary like the FIA, totally lifeless. Just a bunch of barriers and fences. I hope Singapore isn't this bad. I generally like street circuits though. I consider Spa and Albert Park to be street circuits also. Both of them provide plenty of passing too. And it looked like it was in the slums with all those shipping containers, cranes and warehouses... uggh. It isn't good for the spectators either. Do they have to come back?
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modbaraban
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Re: Grand Prix of Europe 2008

Postby modbaraban » Sun Aug 24, 2008 9:08 pm

Ciro Pabón wrote:... my mom ... was on the edge of her seat for the last 15 laps or so.
Well, there was an exciting battle till the very last corner. Felipe Massa vs. Ferrari 056 that is.
ben_watkins wrote:Anyone else notice that Massa and Kimi, from their first stops onwards were not using the front wheel fairings/frizbees?

I thought they were designed to "improve brake cooling" but it seemed that they took them off to help keep their brakes cool due to the hard 5G+ braking at this new circuit....
I did. But it was stated (unofficially) many times that they actually reduce cooling but improve aero. Most teams didn't use those rim shields in Canada for the same reason.

Ray
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Re: Grand Prix of Europe 2008

Postby Ray » Sun Aug 24, 2008 10:10 pm

MattF1 wrote:http://www.fia.com/europegp/documents/EUR_08_Document_41.pdf

Massa gets away with reprimand + fine. :roll:


myurr wrote:For rich teams surely it's worth £10k to them to be able to cut up another car up in the pit lane to gain a place. This sets a dangerous precident.


Correct me if I'm wrong guys, but Massa was the race leader! Is the race leader supposed to just say, 'Oh excuse me , please forgive my rudness for wanting to keep my lead intact. Please go ahead of me, after all, you are a lap down and I'm only leading the F*CKING race!!'? Please. Sutil, regardless of what time Massa exited his stall, should have given way to the race leader. End of story. That's how lapped cars are supposed to behave, on or off the track.

ben_watkins
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Re: Grand Prix of Europe 2008

Postby ben_watkins » Mon Aug 25, 2008 12:19 am

It was an unsafe exit from his pit box. End of.
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Project Four
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Re: Grand Prix of Europe 2008

Postby Project Four » Mon Aug 25, 2008 12:21 am

Correct me if I'm wrong guys, but Massa was the race leader! Is the race leader supposed to just say, 'Oh excuse me , please forgive my rudness for wanting to keep my lead intact. Please go ahead of me, after all, you are a lap down and I'm only leading the F*CKING race!!'? Please. Sutil, regardless of what time Massa exited his stall, should have given way to the race leader. End of story. That's how lapped cars are supposed to behave, on or off the track


Ray, you are so correct Sutil should have braked and stopped, how dare he get in the way of the race leader.

There he was minding his own business exiting the pits, not in the race, Massa's race was far more important than his race, bugger the FIA rule's he should have stopped and let Massa exit before him. In fact he should be punished for getting in the way of poor Massa.

woohoo
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Re: Grand Prix of Europe 2008

Postby woohoo » Mon Aug 25, 2008 12:25 am

myurr wrote:For rich teams surely it's worth £10k to them to be able to cut up another car up in the pit lane to gain a place. This sets a dangerous precident.


If a penalty should be given, I would rather have seen an in-sport penalty (drive though / five places demote in next qualifying etc.)
But on the other hand;

1) The situation was not directly dangerous (Cmon, he was just along side him, slowed down on his own when he saw Sutil wont let him though)
2) Sutil and Massa were not fighting for position.
3) Kubica and Raikonnen were also along side one another in Montreal, and neither was penalized then.
The only way to close a stupid question is to give a smart answer

Rob W
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Re: Grand Prix of Europe 2008

Postby Rob W » Mon Aug 25, 2008 12:54 am

axle wrote:Vettel should have had a drive through for that. And Massa IMO should have had one today. The FIA have cocked up both decisions and as said it sets a dangerous precedent, no team now needs a lollipop man to release the car as they obviously don't need to worry about the other cars.


I agree. This is just silly - to have a rule - make out it is serious, and then to not apply it. The only reason there wasn't a crash between Massa and Sutil was sheer luck - nothing else.

And to hear Massa say in the after race press conference that he was leading and... was a lap down as some sort of justification for him having rights in pit lane shows a pretty unhealthy level of arrogance to me.

I think it wasn't very clever from his side as even if he went out in front of me he needed to let me by.

and
...But I was the leader and he was lapping

Nice drive by Massa though - faultless and well done.

R

Birel99
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Re: Grand Prix of Europe 2008

Postby Birel99 » Mon Aug 25, 2008 1:10 am

What about vettel and Alonso in Germany! If anyone is to be penalized for pit lane battles this year it should be Vettel should have recieved a drive through for forcing alonso out of the white line.

Great drive from Massa. with two of the most demanding circuits for engines coming up we will have to see how ferrari do! or if it just an oil issue, maybe they will give up performance in favor of finishing!

guy_smiley
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Re: Grand Prix of Europe 2008

Postby guy_smiley » Mon Aug 25, 2008 1:31 am

Nearly everyone who has posted a comment (after the race) is incorrect. :D If you are one of these souls, please PM me and I'll counter your point :D Correctly of course :mrgreen:
Smiles all 'round!

shotzski
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Re: Grand Prix of Europe 2008

Postby shotzski » Mon Aug 25, 2008 3:58 am

Sorry if this is an Off-topic question:
were the Mercedes engines of Mclaren, already on their 2nd race life cycle in Valencia?




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