Red Bull exceed fuel flow limit, Ricciardo DSQ at Australian GP

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turbof1
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Re: 2014 Australian Grand Prix - Melbourne 13-16th March

Postby turbof1 » Sun Mar 16, 2014 10:50 am

Looks like Ricciardo will get DSQ'd...

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/112953

Unless they can prove the fuel rate meter was malfunctioning, this pretty much looks like a black 'n white case.

mnmracer
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Re: 2014 Australian Grand Prix - Melbourne 13-16th March

Postby mnmracer » Sun Mar 16, 2014 10:58 am

thomin wrote:


That doesn't look good for him...I really wonder how Red Bull could commit such an error...? If the FIA was able to tell that he "consistently" exceeded the fuel limit, then so was Red Bull. A sensor issue therefore seems highly unlikely. Of course I'm speculating here, I'll be interesting to hear Red Bull's explanation.

What is the penalty for that? Automatic DSQ or a possible time penalty?

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Re: 2014 Australian Grand Prix - Melbourne 13-16th March

Postby Holm86 » Sun Mar 16, 2014 11:01 am


SidSidney
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Re: 2014 Australian Grand Prix - Melbourne 13-16th March

Postby SidSidney » Sun Mar 16, 2014 11:03 am

mnmracer wrote:Yeah, overall he has had 17 retirements, but that alone doesn't say anything without understanding what happened to other drivers.

Hamilton has had 17 retirements from 130 starts, or 13%.
Alonso has had 33 retirements from 218 starts, or 15%.
Vettel has had 19 retirements from 122 starts, or 16%.
Button has had 48 retirements from 251 starts, or 19%.
Räikkönen has had 44 retirements from 195 starts, or 34%.

Retirement-wise, Hamilton's got the best score from all the champions.


That is interesting, thanks for pointing that out. I do tend to compare the stats that show success/fail, which means wins/poles/retirements, rather than per race, but that is also quite interesting. In that context you could say he is pretty lucky compared to many drivers, which seems to be counterintuitive.

I do have a feeling there is some Sabermetrics-type analysis to be done on driver numbers. Hamilton has some interesting stats compared to other senior drivers (he has to be considered senior now at about half way through his career I guess) that may reveal where he should focus his talents to be more successful.
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thomin
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Re: 2014 Australian Grand Prix - Melbourne 13-16th March

Postby thomin » Sun Mar 16, 2014 11:04 am

mnmracer wrote:
thomin wrote:


That doesn't look good for him...I really wonder how Red Bull could commit such an error...? If the FIA was able to tell that he "consistently" exceeded the fuel limit, then so was Red Bull. A sensor issue therefore seems highly unlikely. Of course I'm speculating here, I'll be interesting to hear Red Bull's explanation.

What is the penalty for that? Automatic DSQ or a possible time penalty?


One would think that an automatic DSQ would be in order, especially after declaring a hard stance on the issue before the race. On the other hand, if there was some sort of malfunction by a FIA specified part, then there might be no consequence. I remember Alonso getting off without penalty despite using DRS when he wasn't legally permitted to do so.

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Re: 2014 Australian Grand Prix - Melbourne 13-16th March

Postby lks » Sun Mar 16, 2014 11:05 am

Image

Gaara
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Re: 2014 Australian Grand Prix - Melbourne 13-16th March

Postby Gaara » Sun Mar 16, 2014 11:16 am

So they are allowed 100 kg per race right? the race is 1.5 hours. How the drivers should not pass the 100kg/hour limit?

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Re: 2014 Australian Grand Prix - Melbourne 13-16th March

Postby NathanOlder » Sun Mar 16, 2014 11:18 am

Gaara wrote:So they are allowed 100 kg per race right? the race is 1.5 hours. How the drivers should not pass the 100kg/hour limit?


By not using fuel at a rate of 100kg per hour

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Re: 2014 Australian Grand Prix - Melbourne 13-16th March

Postby mikeerfol » Sun Mar 16, 2014 11:19 am

NathanOlder wrote:
Gaara wrote:So they are allowed 100 kg per race right? the race is 1.5 hours. How the drivers should not pass the 100kg/hour limit?


By not using fuel at a rate of 100kg per hour


Indeed, 100 kg/hour is the maximum they can go.

thomin
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Re: 2014 Australian Grand Prix - Melbourne 13-16th March

Postby thomin » Sun Mar 16, 2014 11:19 am

AlexJ wrote:
thomin wrote:One would think that an automatic DSQ would be in order, especially after declaring a hard stance on the issue before the race. On the other hand, if there was some sort of malfunction by a FIA specified part, then there might be no consequence. I remember Alonso getting off without penalty despite using DRS when he wasn't legally permitted to do so.

If I remember that incident Alonso's DRS popped open during a turn, so he got off on the grounds of not having gained an advantage.

Exceeding the permitted fuel usage even by accident is unlikely to be considered the same way.


I'm not entirely sure about this, but I seem to remember that at least parts of the fuel injection system are specified by the FIA in order for them to be able to monitor it and to prevent teams from cheating. If there was a malfunction in that specific part, then it would be very difficult to punish Red Bull for it. But I admit that I'm reaching here...

thomin
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Re: 2014 Australian Grand Prix - Melbourne 13-16th March

Postby thomin » Sun Mar 16, 2014 11:23 am

mikeerfol wrote:
NathanOlder wrote:
Gaara wrote:So they are allowed 100 kg per race right? the race is 1.5 hours. How the drivers should not pass the 100kg/hour limit?


By not using fuel at a rate of 100kg per hour


Indeed, 100 kg/hour is the maximum they can go.


Could Red Bull have just ignored that? I mean I can see how it could have happened: They saved a lot of fuel at the beginning due to the second warm up lap and the safety car, so they could afford to use more than 100kg/h later without exceeding the overall 100kg limit. But that seems to be a very stupid mistake to make...

thomin
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Re: 2014 Australian Grand Prix - Melbourne 13-16th March

Postby thomin » Sun Mar 16, 2014 11:34 am


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Re: 2014 Australian Grand Prix - Melbourne 13-16th March

Postby SidSidney » Sun Mar 16, 2014 11:34 am

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Re: 2014 Australian Grand Prix - Melbourne 13-16th March

Postby the EDGE » Sun Mar 16, 2014 11:34 am

thomin wrote:
By not using fuel at a rate of 100kg per hour


Indeed, 100 kg/hour is the maximum they can go.[/quote]

Could Red Bull have just ignored that? I mean I can see how it could have happened: They saved a lot of fuel at the beginning due to the second warm up lap and the safety car, so they could afford to use more than 100kg/h later without exceeding the overall 100kg limit. But that seems to be a very stupid mistake to make...[/quote]

theres 2 rules

1, no more than 100kg fuel
2, maximum flow rate of 100kg per hour

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Re: 2014 Australian Grand Prix - Melbourne 13-16th March

Postby iotar__ » Sun Mar 16, 2014 11:35 am

Ricciardo? But team radio message was that fuel was OK, RB lying again ;-) or they don't know what's going on with their car (again) after "software" debacle? [I bet they'll agree to blame Renault later.]




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