Haas - American team in F1

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Post Fri Apr 11, 2014 6:59 pm

https://motorsportstalk.nbcsports.com/2 ... a-1-entry/

What I can't understand is why he's thinking Ferrari engines over Merc or Cosworth. But, great to have an American team coming to the sport in 2015.
Chuckjr
 
Joined: 24 Feb 2012

Post Fri Apr 11, 2014 8:21 pm

I'm not holding my breath. For haas to scrape together a competetive budget while running all his other racing stuff simultaneously AND assemble a team and facility up to F1 par AND design and build a car from scratch in less than a year is quite a stretch in my mind. Securing a competetive engine is not the bigest hurdle such an entry would face.
Lycoming
 
Joined: 25 Aug 2011

Post Fri Apr 11, 2014 8:44 pm

I agree it's not much time to build a new team from scratch, but Haas can at least look at what Marussia and Caterham have done, and learn from their mistakes. If not financially then at least technically.

Still a long road though.
Klaus
 
Joined: 17 Mar 2014

Post Fri Apr 11, 2014 8:46 pm

Maybe Ferrari is the cheapest engine option?
Lewis Hamilton #44
2014 Poles: ******* Wins:*********
gray41
 
Joined: 8 Mar 2011

Post Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:38 pm

Haas is to use a Dallara chassis with a Ferrari engine. Hardly a formula for success.
gilgen
 
Joined: 3 Apr 2010

Post Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:59 pm

gilgen wrote:Haas is to use a Dallara chassis with a Ferrari engine. Hardly a formula for success.


True, but given the short period of time available, what options does he have? Seasoned F1 teams, with mature infrastructure and development programs have a hard time getting a new car ready for a each year. Lotus testing woes are the most recent evidence of this. For his first season Haas will just need a car that will meet his obligation to compete, while he gets the rest of his program into place.
Moxie
 
Joined: 6 Oct 2013

Post Sat Apr 12, 2014 12:48 am

gilgen wrote:Haas is to use a Dallara chassis with a Ferrari engine. Hardly a formula for success.


No? Why not? How are you gauging success?

Going from absolutely nothing to being on the starting grid in ~12 months would be huge success in my book, especially given the result of the last effort (USF1).

If they're at all competitive even with the bottom third tier in year one, that would also be success in my book.

I think the biggest challenge isn't engine or chassis - it's talent in a short time frame. There's a lot of American motor sports talent (e.g. in engineering). But I'd wager that a lot of potential candidates are for the time being locked up in contracts either in Europe or in top NASCAR teams stateside.

So what's that leave you with as your potential employment base in short term situation?
Grip is a four letter word.

2 is the new #1.
Jersey Tom
 
Joined: 29 May 2006
Location: Huntersville, NC

Post Sat Apr 12, 2014 1:23 am

Jersey Tom wrote:
gilgen wrote:Haas is to use a Dallara chassis with a Ferrari engine. Hardly a formula for success.


No? Why not? How are you gauging success?

Going from absolutely nothing to being on the starting grid in ~12 months would be huge success in my book, especially given the result of the last effort (USF1).


I read that as "they're using the HRT chassis" and they frequently encountered difficulty due to 107% rule, in which case they won't be on the starting grid. Although that said, HRT violated that rule multiple times and still made it to the grid, so...
Lycoming
 
Joined: 25 Aug 2011

Post Sat Apr 12, 2014 1:57 am

Just like rabid fanboism isn't tolerated here, neither is calling the Ferrari F1 engine "the worst engine ever" and cussing about it to boot. This isn't Twitterbook; you have to civil.
flyboy2160
 
Joined: 25 Apr 2011

Post Sat Apr 12, 2014 2:32 am

Oh they won't be competitive in 15 or 16, but if they stay at it maybe by 17 they will be near the sharp end. They must look at their effort as a 7-10 year minimum effort to give themselves the chance to seriously compete with the top tier teams.

I just cannot understand the motivation to use Ferrari tho. Ferrari are already under engine freeze percentages, and are paltry at best in the current PU line up (something tells me even Renault will best them this year), and Ferrari would have zero interest in integrating anything in their PU design to better amalgamate it to a competitors chassis.

Why not go with Cosworth? They are not under any freeze currently (just like Honda currently) and being the only buyer of Cosworth USF1 (or whatever they call the team) could almost be considered a factory effort with Cosworth. Additionally, with no other customers, USF1 could work hand in hand with Cosworth, coalescing the chassis and PU together similarly to what Ferrari, Merc, and somewhat RB enjoy.

What am I missing?
Chuckjr
 
Joined: 24 Feb 2012

Post Sat Apr 12, 2014 7:29 am

Lycoming wrote:
Jersey Tom wrote:
gilgen wrote:Haas is to use a Dallara chassis with a Ferrari engine. Hardly a formula for success.


No? Why not? How are you gauging success?

Going from absolutely nothing to being on the starting grid in ~12 months would be huge success in my book, especially given the result of the last effort (USF1).


I read that as "they're using the HRT chassis" and they frequently encountered difficulty due to 107% rule, in which case they won't be on the starting grid. Although that said, HRT violated that rule multiple times and still made it to the grid, so...

I would be interested where you read they will be using the HRT chassis. That chassis won't comply with the new crash tests and lacks the internal dynamics to accommodate the V6 ERS turbo.
Dallara will have to pen a new design. I hope Haas chooses a different motive unit to Ferrari. It is the worse unit on the grid and won't provide an advantage against the 2010 entrants.
Petroltorque
 
Joined: 27 Jul 2011

Post Sat Apr 12, 2014 7:47 am

According to this quote, Ferrari isn't yet a sure thing:

“We have talked to Mercedes and with Ferrari, just preliminary discussions, but we haven’t nailed anything down yet. I guess that would be the next move,” [Haas] revealed. (link)

And if they do choose ferrari, it will be because of more factors than just what the most powerful and reliable engine is, especially with a new team under budget constraints. If Ferrari is willing to give them a good price and a partnership, it could easily be worth more than just having a merc engine.
acosmichippo
 
Joined: 23 Jan 2014
Location: Washington DC

Post Sat Apr 12, 2014 9:12 am

Could it be sort Ferrari B team like STR and RBR?
CHT
 
Joined: 14 Apr 2008

Post Sat Apr 12, 2014 9:19 am

Apparently, the rules next year will allow a greater degree of "technology sharing" between teams, including the chassis if the original manufacturer is willing to transfer the I.P. rights for the design. Between that and Montezemolo's oft-repeated desire for customer cars, I can totally see Haas Formula as a new N.A.R.T.

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Last edited by bhall on Sat Apr 12, 2014 9:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
bhall
 
Joined: 28 Feb 2006

Post Sat Apr 12, 2014 9:24 am

I think they should have the car ready by the summer and start testing for the next 6 months as they will not be covered by the test ban current teams are on. As they are based in US their testing cost will be a lot lesser, engine supplier also could be track testing new ideas outside development freeze.
WilliamsF1
 
Joined: 6 Jan 2010

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