F1 drivers on the brakes, by Brembo engineers.

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SectorOne
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Joined: 26 May 2013, 09:51

F1 drivers on the brakes, by Brembo engineers.

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Straight from Motorsport.com have a read there or here,

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/the-r ... -vs-alonso

SENNA
To date, Brembo cannot remember a driver who has used such a high hydraulic ratio as the one used by Ayrton Senna. He was a truly sensational champion and one of the first drivers to understand the importance of the technological evolution of the brakes.

The Brazilian adored using smaller master cylinders for improved performance and increased system efficiency. Moreover he was one of the few, if not the only one, who personally tested technological development of systems – from calipers with four pads to aluminium alloys that ensured increased stiffness (and power) of the system.


Michael Schumacher
The German has been the most mentally organised racer Brembo technicians have worked with over the years: determined and consistent in his lap times. He demanded the braking system matched his performance.

Schumacher opted for a short and very responsive brake pedal. Although not a giant he was able to exert significant force on the pedal. The search for perfection was one of Schumi's greatest qualities: he wanted the brakes to work continuously without any sign of fading for the duration of the GP race.


Gilles Villeneuve
The aggressive and extreme driving of the former snowmobile racer had its impact on the braking system fitted on the Ferraris he used to drive…

The oldest Brembo technicians still remember – as a sort of nightmare – how Villeneuve knew how to abuse his brakes properly, with his extremely aggressive style.


Alain Prost
Alain Prost, one of Ayrton Senna's biggest rivals, had a very different driving and braking style compared to Senna's. He was less aggressive towards his single seater and the braking system.

His accuracy and clean style meant he did not stress the pedal. That's why the Frenchman didn't have any particular requests for Brembo engineers. He didn't want short nor particularly sturdy pedals, neither did he ever bring the system to extreme levels.

This doesn't mean Alain wasn't concerned about brakes: he would continuously ask the engineers to prepare perfect configurations and a system that would be reliable under every condition.


Sebastian Vettel
According to the Brembo technicians who worked with him to configure the braking system, Vettel is a junior Schumi because he significantly contributes towards vehicle development.

Moreover he is able to pick up the subtlest differences in friction material: currently he is the only driver competing in Formula 1 who can prefer one particular set of brakes over another due to different types of carbon.

He loves starting qualifying laps with a new set of brakes to achieve that extra grip he is able to exploit while attempting the best time for a single lap. He works in perfect harmony with his tyres and opts for a short and extremely reactive pedal. Despite not being particularly heavy built, he is able to apply significant force on the brake pedal.


Fernando Alonso
Alonso, like other champions, is extremely meticulous when it comes to finding the perfect feeling with the braking system. His explosive strength meant he can apply maximum force on the pedal with impressive response times.

His power in terms of physical strength contrasts with his very clean braking technique; he often reaches the limit without exceeding it in a wide range of grip conditions.

It is as if Alonso has been able to create a kind of natural ABS – fully exploiting tyre grip to achieve greater speeds while turning without locking the wheels.


Lewis Hamilton
The British Mercedes driver enjoys an entirely unique feeling with his car; he wants it to focus entirely on the front axle. His aggressive driving style means he often locks the wheels.

Lewis is extremely reactive when he starts to brake; he then often exceeds tyre grip limits and only then, after exerting peak pressure on the pedal, begins to control the action of the braking system.

The English driver wants perfect control when entering a corner, often releasing the throttle once in the turn. In fact, the first part of braking ends upon entering the corner, thus reducing the footprint and increasing the likelihood of the inside front wheel locking.

The only limit that Hamilton knows, according to the engineers he works with, is the maximum temperature of brakes. However, it is his way of driving beyond any physical limit that ensures a truly spectacular and result-producing racing style.



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Andres125sx
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Re: F1 drivers on the brakes, by Brembo engineers.

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Interesting, thanks!

zeph
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Re: F1 drivers on the brakes, by Brembo engineers.

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So Alonso comes with Anti-lock braking left foot!

ChrisF1
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Re: F1 drivers on the brakes, by Brembo engineers.

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Good fine, thanks for sharing.

MadMatt
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Re: F1 drivers on the brakes, by Brembo engineers.

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Interesting!

We all know (I hope) how F1 drivers brake, aka applying massive force on the pedal initially, and gradually releasing it as the speed of the car (and downforce) reduces, but they (should) also modulate the pedal pressure according to grip conditions, something that Alonso seems good at.

In rallying, where downforce is not really a factor, drivers mostly have to modulate the pedal upon grip conditions (which is on the other hand a much bigger factor than in F1). Something that I have noticed they are not very good at. Having worked with 1 of the only 2 major F1 drivers to have driven a WRC machine, I didn't notice any noticeable difference in driving style compared to regular WRC drivers.

Would be interesting to see how Rossi or Alonso in this case perform and see if their feel for the grip can be seen on the data. I bet on the other hand Ogier is the equivalent of Alonso in that matter.

autogyro
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Re: F1 drivers on the brakes, by Brembo engineers.

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So Hamilton drives the car like a go kart.
Gone are the days of balancing the deceleration using the gearbox as part of a drivers skill.
Now the gearbox simply works sequentially to the benefit of KER and rear end stability.
The car itself reacts basically as a no gear go kart.
It is not as simple as that of course ;-)

MadMatt
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Re: F1 drivers on the brakes, by Brembo engineers.

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autogyro wrote:So Hamilton drives the car like a go kart.
Gone are the days of balancing the deceleration using the gearbox as part of a drivers skill.
Now the gearbox simply works sequentially to the benefit of KER and rear end stability.
The car itself reacts basically as a no gear go kart.
It is not as simple as that of course ;-)
I think its been decades the "gearbox" (more like the inertia of the powertrain and clutch operation) is not used to decelerate the car. Probably when the gearbox went sequential and clutch electronically controlled. "Automatic" engine braking :)

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SectorOne
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Re: F1 drivers on the brakes, by Brembo engineers.

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Brakes have been capable of slowing down the car by itself for a good 40 years now.
Youd brobably have to go back to the drum brake days to have any engine braking as part of the slowing down process.
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MadMatt
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Re: F1 drivers on the brakes, by Brembo engineers.

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SectorOne wrote:Brakes have been capable of slowing down the car by itself for a good 40 years now.
Youd brobably have to go back to the drum brake days to have any engine braking as part of the slowing down process.
The thing with manual gearboxes is that once you change down a gear and let go the clutch you are allowing a ramp up of the drivetrain's angular velocity to match the wheels' linear speed. That sort of ramp is what can cause rear wheel lockup as your slip ratio will be too much for the tyres' friction, something you don't really have anymore with sequ gearboxes and electronically controlled gearboxes/clutches/diffs. Rev matching with manual gearboxes helps.

Of course drivers don't rely on engine braking these days, I never said otherwise, I was trying to explain how gearboxes are not used to partially brake the cars anymore, or more specifically, how you can avoid losing time and braking acceleration due to misuse of downshifting (as per autogyro was referring to). :wink:

Sorry for my English.

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SectorOne
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Re: F1 drivers on the brakes, by Brembo engineers.

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Your English is perfect as far as im concerned,
True about rev matching but its really not that hard once you've learnt it.
"If the only thing keeping a person decent is the expectation of divine reward, then brother that person is a piece of sh*t"

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: F1 drivers on the brakes, by Brembo engineers.

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Gah! you beat me to this post. I put it in the driver styles preferences thread.
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Just_a_fan
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Re: F1 drivers on the brakes, by Brembo engineers.

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autogyro wrote:So Hamilton drives the car like a go kart.
Gone are the days of balancing the deceleration using the gearbox as part of a drivers skill.
Now the gearbox simply works sequentially to the benefit of KER and rear end stability.
The car itself reacts basically as a no gear go kart.
It is not as simple as that of course ;-)
"Gears are for going, brakes are for slowing". The days of cars having such poor brakes that the driver needed to use engine braking to ensure he could control the car are long gone.

Having said that, I still heel and toe down-changes but only because it amuses me to do so.
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alexx_88
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Re: F1 drivers on the brakes, by Brembo engineers.

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Heel & toe is a must if you intend to do any track days with a manual car. It simply saves so much time :)

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: F1 drivers on the brakes, by Brembo engineers.

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SectorOne wrote:Brakes have been capable of slowing down the car by itself for a good 40 years now.
Youd brobably have to go back to the drum brake days to have any engine braking as part of the slowing down process.
Automatic transmission driver detected!
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ESPImperium
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Re: F1 drivers on the brakes, by Brembo engineers.

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Those of you that have been trackside in the past two-three years with the V8-KERS and V6T-ERS engines can see its much more than that. Brakes are about 70-75 of the braking stage, VET is clearly the latest of the late in the V8-KERS RB9, however he has changed in the V6T-ERS SF15-T, he is as late, but like many drivers he uses a lift/coast stage now.

Braking as far as i can tell at the first Retifillio at Monza in 2013 was all about breaking at the 120m-150m mark, depending on the car, and controlling the DRS 'kick', getting the flow to attach again, then using the front, rotate the car to the driver style. There was a lot going on then, however there is so much more now. The drivers don't have to worry about the 'kick' as that has largely been sorted now, however the lift/coast starts much earlier at the 200-250m mark and some drivers start as much as 300m out in a severe case of fuel saving, braking is more progressive, it starts about 150-180m out where they seem to come off the brake pedal 20-30m earlier in order for the ERS to get maximum gain and sort out the rear end stability. There are two drivers that i can tell that stand out, both are in the same team ALO seems to do more in the mid braking zone, where BUT has that more progressive style in there releasing the brake pedal about 30m later than ALO, however both have the same entry speed and at the apex they are identical to the naked eye.

The Mercedes are pretty close, however ROS is earlier, but not by much, 10m if that, however ROS release more on flow where HAM has more natural feel. HAM is more spectacular, but he-on occasion is not the fastest way to deal with a turn.

Anyone who says that the gearbox/ERS/electronics are not in place with braking are clearly deluded, there is 20-30% of the braking done by them, otherwise they won't gay any decent regeneration for use later in the lap. Unless its a full pelt, Qualifying lap.