Are we seeing a Vettel era?

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
Post Reply

Are we?

Yes
55
39%
No
85
61%
 
Total votes: 140

User avatar
raymondu999
54
Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 07:31

Re: Are we seeing a Vettel era?

Post

While many people talk of Monza 2008 as proof that Vettel can perform in a bad car - which I agree with - I think as JET says, the true test will be how will he perform in a bad car, AFTER he's had a championship-winning car.

Monza 2008 was proof that he has the ability to do it in a bad car. But at that point he was still trying to prove a point and get a seat at a top team. But if he's had a very good car and has to move to a midfield-ish car; that might be a big question mark.

As an analogy - it's very easy for people to move from a 13" laptop to a 15" laptop - but quite hard for a 17" laptop user to move down to 15" in terms of screen real estate
失败者找理由,成功者找方法

CHT
CHT
-6
Joined: 14 Apr 2008, 05:24

Re: Are we seeing a Vettel era?

Post

bhallg2k wrote:
CHT wrote:[...] in 2014. By then, FA and JB would have reached the tail end of their career [...] So that will leave Vettel, Kimi and LH as the only world champions left for top teams to consider.
I highly doubt Button and Alonso will be over the hill in two years, much less somehow behind Raikkonen, who's the same age as Button (32) and two years older than Alonso.
They will not be over the hill but the will be too old to take the risk of reestablishing themselves with a new team. So I am guessing that they will most likely finish their career on a high with their current team.
Last edited by CHT on 20 Feb 2012, 15:54, edited 2 times in total.

CHT
CHT
-6
Joined: 14 Apr 2008, 05:24

Re: Are we seeing a Vettel era?

Post

raymondu999 wrote:My point is if another team would like him; they woudl probably have to entice him with the possibility of tearing down their current tech structure and redoing it to Newey's liking. And you're proposing that Merc does this (with Newey); only a few years after a restructuring in itself? (the Bob Bell 2011/2012 restructuring)
I think many team will be willing to pay top dollars to learn about the RBR/Newey structure not to mention having Newey himself to come set up , run and manage that structure within the organization.

Unlike Mclaren, Merc is still a relatively new team, they are still evolving, so they should be more adaptable to new ideas.

Having said that, I am not sure if Newey is a big fan of Merc engine.

bhall
244
Joined: 28 Feb 2006, 21:26

Re: Are we seeing a Vettel era?

Post

raymondu999 wrote:While many people talk of Monza 2008 as proof that Vettel can perform in a bad car - which I agree with [...]
How? He started from pole and maintained his position throughout a chaotic wet race. His teammate, the one who eventually got run out of F1 because he didn't live up to expectations, started 4th, only 3/10 back. And given the conditions, the Newey-designed STR3 was far from a bad car that weekend.

It's certainly to Vettel's credit that he brought it home in the same position in which he started, but it was hardly an indicator of otherworldly ability. Kovalainen did the same thing.

Vettel did was he was supposed to do. That's what he always does.

I want to see his performance in a situation where he's not expected to succeed. That simply hasn't happened yet.

User avatar
raymondu999
54
Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 07:31

Re: Are we seeing a Vettel era?

Post

Why is winning from pole a bad thing? For all we know the McLaren probably should've been faster - it was the fastest wet car that year. That he got the pole in a Toro Rosso in itself is an amazing feat - and I don't see how that makes it a bad thing.
失败者找理由,成功者找方法

User avatar
bdr529
59
Joined: 08 Apr 2011, 19:49
Location: Canada

Re: Are we seeing a Vettel era?

Post

What constitutes an "era" 2 championships, 3 in a row, 3 in 4 years??.
I look back to the start of the 2002 season, Schumacher just won 2 WDC in a row, and I don't think anyone would have thought then that they were about to see 3 more years of dominance from Ferrari and Schumacher.

If Vettel was to finish 3rd or worst this year then people could just as easily say that he was lucky and that he barely won his first title
and he only won his second because the car was superior to the rest of the field.
As they say " You can't see the forest though the trees ". We'll have to wait and see how the next few years play out before history decides if this is a Vettel era or not
Last edited by bdr529 on 20 Feb 2012, 16:34, edited 1 time in total.

bhall
244
Joined: 28 Feb 2006, 21:26

Re: Are we seeing a Vettel era?

Post

raymondu999 wrote:Why is winning from pole a bad thing? For all we know the McLaren probably should've been faster - it was the fastest wet car that year. That he got the pole in a Toro Rosso in itself is an amazing feat - and I don't see how that makes it a bad thing.
I didn't say winning from pole was a bad thing. But, it wasn't exactly shocking either.

The STR3 is not the dog you want it to be in this scenario. Bourdais started from 4th.

Maybe the McLaren was the fastest in the rain that year. If so, that was only the case when Hamilton was behind the wheel. And because both he and Raikkonen screwed up their chances in the race with poor qualifying efforts, Vettel only had to contend with Kovalainen, who's certainly no slouch, but he hasn't exactly set the world on fire with his talent.

User avatar
raymondu999
54
Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 07:31

Re: Are we seeing a Vettel era?

Post

It wasn't a dog. But I still don't think it was the fastest car. Bourdais qualified a second off Vettel, and was on a wet setup.
失败者找理由,成功者找方法

bhall
244
Joined: 28 Feb 2006, 21:26

Re: Are we seeing a Vettel era?

Post

Bourdais was 3/10 off in Q2.

I'm really not knocking Vettel. I promise. (I save my knocks for Hamilton.)

But, it doesn't change the fact that the 2008 Italian Grand Prix was not what it's being made to appear. That's all.

User avatar
raymondu999
54
Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 07:31

Re: Are we seeing a Vettel era?

Post

Yes - like I said; on a wet setup. He was consistently down on the traps on Vettel.

It's not a superhuman drive like Toleman 1984 Monaco. But it wasn't "business as usual" either.
失败者找理由,成功者找方法

bhall
244
Joined: 28 Feb 2006, 21:26

Re: Are we seeing a Vettel era?

Post

We can just disagree on the "business as usual" part. I'm fine with that.

I'll say this, though: I think it does a disservice to Vettel to heap upon him all of this praise right now. Because when/if he actually deserves it, such praise will have been cheapened by feats like his 2008 win at Monza being made out to seem like more than they really are. That's why I think perspective is important.

User avatar
Donuts
1
Joined: 01 Jun 2010, 18:28

Re: Are we seeing a Vettel era?

Post

I'm afraid we are seeing a Vettel era, but i would rather call it a Red Bull era or Adrian Newey era. I would be very surprised(positive) if any of the top five teams alter the order. Last year I recall experts around the testing tracks said Red Bull still on top, they are saying the same this year... the only thing to hope for is that McLaren are closer or a "small wonder" from any of the other teams.
The speed of Ayrton Senna.
The mind of Alain Prost.
The dedication of Michael Schumacher.
The determination of Alex Zanardi.

CHT
CHT
-6
Joined: 14 Apr 2008, 05:24

Re: Are we seeing a Vettel era?

Post

bhallg2k wrote:
raymondu999 wrote:Why is winning from pole a bad thing? For all we know the McLaren probably should've been faster - it was the fastest wet car that year. That he got the pole in a Toro Rosso in itself is an amazing feat - and I don't see how that makes it a bad thing.
I didn't say winning from pole was a bad thing. But, it wasn't exactly shocking either.

The STR3 is not the dog you want it to be in this scenario. Bourdais started from 4th.

Maybe the McLaren was the fastest in the rain that year. If so, that was only the case when Hamilton was behind the wheel. And because both he and Raikkonen screwed up their chances in the race with poor qualifying efforts, Vettel only had to contend with Kovalainen, who's certainly no slouch, but he hasn't exactly set the world on fire with his talent.
Vettel could be the reason why the STR doesnt look slow. What about in Brazil? Vettel qualified in 7 and yet finish 4th ahead of both Mclaren

bhall
244
Joined: 28 Feb 2006, 21:26

Re: Are we seeing a Vettel era?

Post

The STR3 was designed by Adrian Newey. The only difference between it and the Red Bull RB4, aside from engines, is that the Red Bull got updates first.

User avatar
JohnsonsEvilTwin
0
Joined: 29 Jan 2010, 11:51
Location: SU 419113

Re: Are we seeing a Vettel era?

Post

bhallg2k wrote:The STR3 was designed by Adrian Newey. The only difference between it and the Red Bull RB4, aside from engines, is that the Red Bull got updates first.
A very good point.
More could have been done.
David Purley

Post Reply