Vettel has a 10 kg weight advantage

[dren]

Not really, the weight can be lower in the car. The 10kilos would be of benefit, but probably marginal. The difference between pace is almost all down to driver skill and car set-up.

[Rob01]

The front-to-rear ratio must be 46:54 percent. Having ten more pounds to move would still allow Vettel to run more or less weight where he wants it and maintain the ratio. That would give a slight advantage to Vettel but not worth half a second. Half second being the margin he out qualifies Webber on average.

[CHT]

Not really, the weight can be lower in the car. The 10kilos would be of benefit, but probably marginal. The difference between pace is almost all down to driver skill and car set-up.

10kg advantage over few hundred corners in a race could mean quite a lot on tires.

[RH1300S]

This means Red bull can load him with 10 kg less fuel or 10 kg more fuel and tell him to beast the hell out of it.


Anyone disagree? F1 is becoming a farce again - the lightest driver in the fastest car wins...

I'm not sure if anyone has been clear enough about this.........

Minimum weight is measured by adding car AND driver weights together to get to 640kg (including his race suit and helmet). If a car and driver is below the minimum weight they have to add ballast. This has NOTHING to do with fuel loads.

Needing to use ballast may give a slight advantage because there is more flexibility with where you distribute the weight. Having said that I think the FIA have tightened up on where ballast can be located too.

The fact you are obviously determined not to see is that Vettel is fast, simple as that.

[CHT]

I'm not sure if anyone has been clear enough about this.........

Minimum weight is measured by adding car AND driver weights together to get to 640kg (including his race suit and helmet). If a car and driver is below the minimum weight they have to add ballast. This has NOTHING to do with fuel loads.

Needing to use ballast may give a slight advantage because there is more flexibility with where you distribute the weight. Having said that I think the FIA have tightened up on where ballast can be located too.

The fact you are obviously determined not to see is that Vettel is fast, simple as that.

Technical regulation stated that cars must weigh at least 640kg (including the driver) at all times.

My interpretation is that, at any point before or after the race, the CAR must weigh no less than 640kg. Which mean it will most likely be Car + Driver + Helmet + Fuel because there is a min fuel required in the tank for the fuel pump to function properly.

[dren]

Weight distribution is fixed, min weight (car and driver) is fixed. The difference between driver weights will be in added ballast that can, and most likely will be set as low as possible in the car. The benefit of a slightly lower CofG will certainly help, but I'm guessing it isn't much.

[Lurk]

there is a min fuel required in the tank for the fuel pump to function properly.

It is less than 1kg (between 0.6-1kg some years ago).
Moreover you can't proove how low on fuel your car will stop, so weighing is always done without any fuel onboard.


And I'm agreed with dren: 10kg difference between 2 drivers is not where the difference come. Schumacher have always weighed something like 75kg, I don't think it ever impede him to be fast.

Weight could be a problem in smaller categories when wheighing is done without the driver, not in formula one.

[raymondu999]

I think we scared off the OP

[CHT]

there is a min fuel required in the tank for the fuel pump to function properly.

It is less than 1kg (between 0.6-1kg some years ago).
Moreover you can't proove how low on fuel your car will stop, so weighing is always done without any fuel onboard.


And I'm agreed with dren: 10kg difference between 2 drivers is not where the difference come. Schumacher have always weighed something like 75kg, I don't think it ever impede him to be fast.

Weight could be a problem in smaller categories when wheighing is done without the driver, not in formula one.

I always though that the minimum weight limit is car + driver + fluid + camera, and the cars are weigh at random after the qualifying or after the race.

Are the mechanics allow to touch the car during weighing process?

[timbo]

Schumacher have always weighed something like 75kg, I don't think it ever impede him to be fast.

I remember though the accusations of him cheating with his weight in 1994. IIRC drivers were weighted at the start of the GP (or even the season) only, and somehow Michael was caught with several kilos weight difference. I remember Berger said something along the lines "he drinks like a horse"

[RH1300S]

Schumacher have always weighed something like 75kg, I don't think it ever impede him to be fast.

I remember though the accusations of him cheating with his weight in 1994. IIRC drivers were weighted at the start of the GP (or even the season) only, and somehow Michael was caught with several kilos weight difference. I remember Berger said something along the lines "he drinks like a horse"

There was a story going around when they first started weighing driver and car that Michael used to take his helmet off after a race and hand it to a mechanic. Before he was weighed, the 'helmet' was handed back and was quite a bit heavier. IIRC they changed the rules to prevent this type of thing happening.

[siskue2005]

Schumacher have always weighed something like 75kg, I don't think it ever impede him to be fast.

I remember though the accusations of him cheating with his weight in 1994. IIRC drivers were weighted at the start of the GP (or even the season) only, and somehow Michael was caught with several kilos weight difference. I remember Berger said something along the lines "he drinks like a horse"

There was a story going around when they first started weighing driver and car that Michael used to take his helmet off after a race and hand it to a mechanic. Before he was weighed, the 'helmet' was handed back and was quite a bit heavier. IIRC they changed the rules to prevent this type of thing happening.

what MS and bennetton did back then was:

There was only ONE weighing of the driver preseason ..... and no weighing unil next season....and the car was weighed without the dirver
So they did the exact opposite of what is done in Boxing

He put up weight of more than 10 kg before wieighing

Then after this he would starve and reduce his weight by 15 kgs before the season begins

So by then his car is 15 KG lighter

this was done by lots of drivers back then, not just MS!

thats why they changed the rules to weigh before a race weekend starts...still many drivers including MS managed to weigh 4-5kg more on thursday and come sunday they would lose 5 kg (through sweating and excercise)

and finally FIA started weighing before and after every session and also changed to rule so that the car weighed 605KG including the driver

[Shrieker]

As another fellow member has pointed out, if your car+driver is 10 kg short of the limit, why add 10 kg of ballast and not 10 kg of kers batteries

Ofcourse that isn't supposed to explain the gap between Vettel and Webber. But it might point out why Webber kinda had more kers issues since the start of the season.

[RB7ate9]

As another fellow member has pointed out, if your car+driver is 10 kg short of the limit, why add 10 kg of ballast and not 10 kg of kers batteries

Ofcourse that isn't supposed to explain the gap between Vettel and Webber. But it might point out why Webber kinda had more kers issues since the start of the season.

Because KERS is limited nonetheless of how many battery packs you have. 6s or so per lap, I think? And because they essentially get recharged throughout, the little indicator we see during races are really just the allotment per lap and not actual capacity of the batteries being used up. Frankly, I would love to see how much the batteries hold fully charged (maybe enough for 12s per lap? more?) and see how well drivers could do with unlimited KERS!

Also, with more batteries requires more cooling? could be disadvantage overall with more KERS (we all know what Newey's thoughts are on KERS!).

Webber's KERS issues may just be that RBR is still having problems ironing out everything with Webber's car. New ideas tested? Different technologies fitted? Conspiracies and theories.

[raymondu999]

I suspect that KERS would actually hold more than 6s; this is so that the drivers are able to double-deploy it in qualifying. i.e. deploy it out of the last corner and onto the startline, which they always do. If that run up is 6s; and actually there is a massive area out of Turn 1 which requires you to boost for 4s; but the braking zone at T1 isn't enough for that much energy; they'd need to have stored it beforehand.