Worst car to win a grand prix

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flattyre
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Re: Worst car to win a grand prix

Post by flattyre » Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:15 am

Obviously he didn't win, but I remember reading that Jos Verstappen was genuinely on course to win the 2003 US Grand Prix for Minardi before he binned it.

I've hardly heard anything about it since, so whether or not it was true or not, remains to be seen...

edit: Or was it the 2003 Brazillian GP? I can't remember!

Pierce89
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Re: Worst car to win a grand prix

Post by Pierce89 » Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:40 am

Gridlock wrote:I don't think Alonso can count, as it was a race run to different regulations than the rest of the season. Good drive though.

This should be a fairly easy stat for someone: which race-winning constructor scored the worst rest-of-season? That would be the worst car to ever win a race, objectively speaking.
mid season rule changes or "clarifications" are perfectly in line with the tradition of modern F1, so discounting Alonso's 2011 Silverstone is not valid IMHO. The DDD was illegal till the FIA saw an oppurtunity.
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raymondu999
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Re: Worst car to win a grand prix

Post by raymondu999 » Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:41 am

The win is of course legible for consideration. But I don't think the 2011 Ferrari was bad at all in that race - easily 2nd and possibly 1st in terms of race pace - nowhere near the "dogship" of the 96 Ligier or 2003 Jordan :P
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Gridlock
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Re: Worst car to win a grand prix

Post by Gridlock » Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:48 am

Pierce89 wrote:discounting Alonso's 2011 Silverstone is not valid IMHO. The DDD was illegal till the FIA saw an oppurtunity.
What I meant was its not very possible to judge how good the Silverstone-spec Ferrari was vs the rest of the field, as you only have one race to use as a baseline. But I take the point about it being within the F1 style of things.
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Pierce89
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Re: Worst car to win a grand prix

Post by Pierce89 » Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:52 am

Gridlock wrote:
Pierce89 wrote:discounting Alonso's 2011 Silverstone is not valid IMHO. The DDD was illegal till the FIA saw an oppurtunity.
What I meant was its not very possible to judge how good the Silverstone-spec Ferrari was vs the rest of the field, as you only have one race to use as a baseline. But I take the point about it being within the F1 style of things.
Ahh now I understand, and a very valid point you make, now that I'm on the same page
“To be able to actually make something is awfully nice”
Bruce McLaren on building his first McLaren racecars, 1970

“I've got to be careful what I say, but possibly to probably Juan would have had a bigger go”
Sir Frank Williams after the 2003 Canadian GP, where Ralf hesitated to pass brother M. Schumacher

marcush.
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Re: Worst car to win a grand prix

Post by marcush. » Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:51 am

I´d think Brambillas win in a rained out 1975 Austria is a possible contender .If i´m correct the car was really a clapped out old chassis as Vittorio really crashed a lot those days and March had difficulty to provide cars as quickly as needed...neeedless to say Brambilla crashed the car crossing the line...

Donuts
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Re: Worst car to win a grand prix

Post by Donuts » Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:06 am

Hmm... Kimi Raikkonen, Scuderia Ferrari, Spa Francorchamps, 2009! Would not have been posible without KERS(and the rivals lack of it). What a dog of a car, just look at where Badoer started and finished... maybe not a good comparison. Let's look at the season instead, started in AUS P15 and ended in ABU P12. Between EUR and SIN the car was at it's peak in performance.
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waynes
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Re: Worst car to win a grand prix

Post by waynes » Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:10 pm

Alonso Singapore 08

yes i know it was a staged win

Roland Ehnström
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Re: Worst car to win a grand prix

Post by Roland Ehnström » Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:27 pm

Alboreto, Tyrrell 011, Detroit 1983.

ESPImperium
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Re: Worst car to win a grand prix

Post by ESPImperium » Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:54 pm

What about another controvercial one, Schumacher in Austria when he won the race by a tenth over Rubens? That was F2002 chassis 219. That chassis never won again, and was only raced twice in Austria and Monaco.

manchild
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Re: Worst car to win a grand prix

Post by manchild » Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:53 pm

Ferrari F2005 @ the infamous US GP 2005, the only win for Ferrari in the whole season, because Michelin teams boycotted that single race.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrari_F2005

Websta
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Re: Worst car to win a grand prix

Post by Websta » Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:54 pm

Although not a race, the 2005 US Grand Prix winning Ferrari deserves more mention than Alonso's win in Silverstone last season.

Lorenzo_Bandini
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Re: Worst car to win a grand prix

Post by Lorenzo_Bandini » Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:50 am

Donuts wrote:Hmm... Kimi Raikkonen, Scuderia Ferrari, Spa Francorchamps, 2009! Would not have been posible without KERS(and the rivals lack of it). What a dog of a car, just look at where Badoer started and finished... maybe not a good comparison. Let's look at the season instead, started in AUS P15 and ended in ABU P12. Between EUR and SIN the car was at it's peak in performance.

This car wasn't a dog. Watch Massa's race instead of Raikkonen race before Hungary...

Miguel
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Re: Worst car to win a grand prix

Post by Miguel » Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:03 pm

The thing is, I can remember wacky races, won by the 3rd or even 4th best car that year (eg Japan and Singapore 2008, Hungary 2006). But are those cars really crappy? The Renault was pretty competitive at the end of 2008, after the Spa upgrade, and the 2006 Honda actually looked like a contender at the beginning of the season, while Button's end of season was superb. In 99, mac, ferrari, jordansand perhaps williams were faster than the Stewart, but Rubens still got 3 podiums that year. Gilles' wins in 1981 could qualify, though. Just for laughs, my contribution is...

1988 Italian GP. The only non-McLaren win that year.
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Paul
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Re: Worst car to win a grand prix

Post by Paul » Wed Feb 22, 2012 7:01 pm

Tough to beat Jordan-2003. I mean, the car caught fire before it ran the race distance.