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bill shoe wrote:I naturally root for underdogs and backmarkers, so the three new teams have been easy for me to like. However...
It's now their third season and I think they've run out of "we're new" excuses. They need to start taking the fight to the other teams instead of screwing around near the 107% rule. They need to stop being a permanent minor league in residence on the grid.
This thread gets after HRT and Marussia which is fair. Lend some criticism to Caterham as well. They've had consistent funding, consistent management, and good drivers. And they have zero points. They need to score non-fluke points this year. If they don't then why are they in F1? At least the other two teams have legacy issues that can be blamed on past management.
I'll give all three teams the benefit of the doubt for one more season. They'll be the only thing I have to root for as Vettel rambles to another easy championship.
I honestly dont see how these 3 teams will be able to fight for points or even survive if they dont start putting some serious money into building the team infrastructure.
I think the unprecedented reliability of the top teams is as much of a reason as any for the failure of the weaker teams to score points. Those points are simply not available nearly as often as they once were. (The FIA didn't think of that part when it mandated the use of virtually bulletproof engines and gearboxes.)
bill shoe wrote:
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Lend some criticism to Caterham as well. They've had consistent funding, consistent management, and good drivers. And they have zero points. They need to score non-fluke points this year. If they don't then why are they in F1? At least the other two teams have legacy issues that can be blamed on past management.
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Agree, Lotus/Caterham is the biggest disappointment to me, good funding, last year a very good engine, xperienced drivers and Mike Gascoyne at that, still they seem to be unable to make much progress at all?
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"
On the USA and F1: First, Penske did have some success in F1. There are no structural, cultural, or technical reasons the US can not be successful in F1. No US organization (in recent history) has made a legitimate, serious effort to create a US F1 team. (Please note: "legitmate, serious.")
Why so little participation? Lack of interest. In the US, if you want to advertise through racing, you support NASCAR primarily, with IndyCar and drag racing possibiliites. Historically, auto racing in the US began on horse racing tracks -- ovals -- not road courses. And, historically, the US has been the home of the big powerful V8s -- not the European model of smaller (and more efficient) engines.
Enzo Ferrari was a great man. But he was not a good man. -- Phil Hill
I don't consider Parnelli or Beatrice completely hopeless outfits either, where one of the problems with the latter team was that Ford had forbidden them from running enough boost, when they didn't wanted to be seen blowing up any engines.
As Alan Jones put it; "Good little engine that, for Le Mans"
A good American effort all in all anyway.
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"
Caterham should really have been benchmark for new teams but compare to TR and FI ,compare how Sauber digged themselves out of the doldrums and you can see something does not work there.
If Marussia and HRT lacked stability and funds the question is what is missing in Fernandes and Gascoynes ship? they have experiencce ,good people ,good drivers but threw away the first year with a hopeless car and obviously last years challenger was not the step they needed to make Year three with again a completely new car and again reliability and speed are not there...
HRt made a big mistake to change all .Had Kolles pushed everything through I ´m almost sure that car would have beaten Caterham.
I don't think Caterham threw away its first year with a "hopeless" car. It was inevitable that their first car would to be weak.
There are six or seven teams who have the performance and reliability to consistently score points. There are only ten points-paying positions available. Aside from expecting a miraculous rise from Caterham, the numbers don't yet point to the team being a regular threat for scoring points. However, that doesn't necessarily mean that they aren't operating at a relatively high level.
F1 is difficult. If it wasn't, teams would rarely fold, and we wouldn't be having this discussion. Yanno?
Having mix feeling about caterham qualifying result and also the team future.
When MG says that he will stop attending races to concentrate on other businesses, is it good or bad?
CHT wrote:Having mix feeling about caterham qualifying result and also the team future.
When MG says that he will stop attending races to concentrate on other businesses, is it good or bad?
Being this far behind the midfield is worrying indeed, as much as I love Mike Gascoyne and his take-no-prisoners approach,
this is beginning to look like an utter failure, there are not many xcuses left, are there?
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"
make no bones about it,Gascoyne sold an old design through his own company to Fernandes when a first class machine was up for sale -the Toyota .
PLUS Fernandes has already clearly stated he will take action when the promised step-fighting for points results in 2012- is not performed.I have no doubt he will do so.The question is will he hire more new people or call it quits?
Marussia -surprisingly the car is not slower but undoubtedly there is no chance they have the reliability with no testing done..Sure a fight against time and i wonder if they have the time for this fresh start .A severe mistake to tear down what they had already build up as the setback is more around a year methinks.Future in doubt.
HRT-even more than Marussia: what a mistake to change all but the car..sorry but we will not see them next year again .I expect them to drop out later this season unfortunatelly.
CHT wrote:Having mix feeling about caterham qualifying result and also the team future.
When MG says that he will stop attending races to concentrate on other businesses, is it good or bad?
Being this far behind the midfield is worrying indeed, as much as I love Mike Gascoyne and his take-no-prisoners approach,
this is beginning to look like an utter failure, there are not many xcuses left, are there?
I am guessing that the team could be running out of funding soon as tony's airline business are not doing very well at the moment.
perhaps that's why MG is being asked to do something else..
make no bones about it,Gascoyne sold an old design through his own company to Fernandes when a first class machine was up for sale -the Toyota .
PLUS Fernandes has already clearly stated he will take action when the promised step-fighting for points results in 2012- is not performed.I have no doubt he will do so.The question is will he hire more new people or call it quits?
he also had fingers in capricorn that built the 2010 car
in the factory there are pinball machines and video games so when you are fed up or cant be botherd to work you can go and have a play, So is this the right way to run a F1 team? certainly not according to EVERY single team that is in front of them
We have to remember that with Minardi, they had almost as many DNF's as they did finishes and more importantly, they had 20 years in the sport which they gave them a long time to perfect the art of running a formula 1 team with zero money. How did people look upon Minardi in at the end of '87, when they had only finished 9 races? We also have to remember that the midfield is so tightly packed nowadays and the reliability is so good that it's unlikely we'll see races like the 2002 Australian GP where only 8 people were classified.
Team Lotus this time last year were arround 1% off the pace, whitch is arround 9.5 tenths at Sepang, this year they are about half of 1%, whitch is 4.5 tenths roughly. They (Caterham) have gained a half second relitive to last season at the same track. They are now just about to get into the mid pack, they are half a secont to it at tops on raw pace. In race pace they are there id guess.
Vrigin this same time were about 6.2% off the raw pace, now they (Marussia) are at about 5% off, that have improved, and i think they will improve futher this season. They will hopefully join intoi where Caterham have finished last season toward the end of this one. All at Sepang for relitivity.
Sepang again, Hispania have improved by .2% from last season in raw pace, but last years car was based off a know, a evolution. This one is a clean sheet, so is improving, and has now been baselined to a point. The Hispania team have improved by 2.7% from AUS to MAL, in raw pace. However cant always have a 27% improvement race to race. Overall the F112 to the F111 is about a tenth quicker at present.
Caterham have now improved to be the baseline and are now established, Marussia are getting there now but could do better. Hispania need to get with the program, however they are a 80% new team from last year so will be given more time.
Im giving Caterham half the season, maybe slightly more to get into the mid pack and have at least 1 point on the board.
Marussia im giving about two-thirds of the year to get to within half to seven tenths of the mid pack regularly.
Hispania are getting the season to get their crap in oprder and get to within a second of the mid pack regularly enough.
All acheivable goals. However Caterham have the move from Hingham to Leafeild in the summer, Marussia have got to get the MR01 into a wind tunnel and correlated CFD/Tunnel/Real Live data to get sorted out, and Hispania need to get into their new facility and get a qualified and experienced TD in ASAP. All this could disrupt plans, so mid season adjustment may be needed to my goals.
