Hamilton to leave for Mercedes 2013

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Shakeman
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Re: Hamilton to leave for Mercedes 2013

Post by Shakeman » Sun Sep 30, 2012 12:31 am

JACKSONVILLE wrote:To all the lewis hamilton fanboys have a read of this http://www.pitpass.com/47448-New-F1-eng ... Ecclestone

It seems the main reason or you believe it's the main reason why hamilton has gone to mercedes is going to be dead in the water before it evens comes to fruition lol.

DEFINITION OF A FANBOY= A PERSON WHO IS SO BIASED HE NEVER SEES WRONG IN THE PERSON HE OR SHE IS SUPPORTING AND ALWAYS BARKS AT THOSE THAT CRITICIZES THEIR CHARGE. :) :) :D
Moronic comment.

F1 Technical is going/gone to the fanboy/hater crowds that have made the other F1 forums so joyless.

=D>

Nando
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Re: Hamilton to leave for Mercedes 2013

Post by Nando » Sun Sep 30, 2012 12:49 am

JACKSONVILLE wrote:Of course f1 is not a one man sport you have all the engineers, car designers etc. I know that. But what i'm saying is 100% true.Hamilton is not known to be a team player you know that I know that. He will throw his toys out the pram when his stuck in P6 to 10 regularly come on no. As i said mr ross yawn better be prepared to have hamilton screaming down the other end about lack of pace lack of pace loool
You are talking out of your own ass.

Did you watch the 2009 season, first half?
I dont think you did because no man would say such retarded things.
"Il Phenomeno" - The one they fear the most!

"2% of the world's population own 50% of the world's wealth."

phillippe
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Re: Hamilton to leave for Mercedes 2013

Post by phillippe » Sun Sep 30, 2012 2:06 am

Nando wrote:
JACKSONVILLE wrote:Of course f1 is not a one man sport you have all the engineers, car designers etc. I know that. But what i'm saying is 100% true.Hamilton is not known to be a team player you know that I know that. He will throw his toys out the pram when his stuck in P6 to 10 regularly come on no. As i said mr ross yawn better be prepared to have hamilton screaming down the other end about lack of pace lack of pace loool
You are talking out of your own ass.

Did you watch the 2009 season, first half?
I dont think you did because no man would say such retarded things.
I don't think any one of us can say with certainty how Hamilton will react next season. But if I were to point out a difference between the 2009 season when he had a dog of a car and next season (if the W04 turns out to be uncompetitive), it would be that in 2009 Hamilton would have understood that the MP4-24 suffered because McLaren diverted massive amount of development resources to support Hamilton's bid for the WDC in 2008. In the present case, Brawn says that Hamilton is satisfied with what he has seen in terms of "Mercedes' project". If this means that Hamilton has been given any kind of assurances regarding W04's competitiveness, to say the least, Hamilton would not be too amused if the car doesn't turn out to be so. As we recall, Hamilton was much less patient with the development of MP4-26 (or was it the MP4-25?).

I am not saying that Hamilton will be blowing his top immediately if he doesn't get a fast car out of the box. But if Mercedes' car development record is going to stay the same, it may not be long before Hamilton voices his criticisms publicly.

Nando
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Re: Hamilton to leave for Mercedes 2013

Post by Nando » Sun Sep 30, 2012 2:48 am

I don't think any team can guarantee a driver sucess, they will know that answer in AUS Q3.

If we are going by modern day sucess Brawn has won a title lter then Mclaren and he has numerous titles before that under his belt.
No doubt mclaren can build quick cars but they just cant get it together.
If it werent for trulli we would have laughed at Mclaren by now.
In terms of championships they are on the verge of being a laughing stock with that budget.
They havent won a WCC in 14 years.

From Hamiltons point of view it seems mclaren is the sinkint boat, not Mercedes.
It also seems he sees this as a project that needs developing as im sure he knows where Mercedes have been for the last three years.

At first i thought wtf are you doing Ham but the more i think about it i think man im glad you jumped that ship before it goes downhill again.
"Il Phenomeno" - The one they fear the most!

"2% of the world's population own 50% of the world's wealth."

Nando
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Re: Hamilton to leave for Mercedes 2013

Post by Nando » Sun Sep 30, 2012 2:53 am

Sure mclaren has been building better cars this year but its really irrelevant when the goal is to win, not come second, third, fourth or fifth.
It might help with the pain to get finish higher but still, there's only one goal for everyone.

This year they have had a championship winning car and they have almost blew their chances completely.

What we have left is Titmarsch saying "i dont know...." Like he doesn't care.
"Il Phenomeno" - The one they fear the most!

"2% of the world's population own 50% of the world's wealth."

tetopelis
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Re: Hamilton to leave for Mercedes 2013

Post by tetopelis » Sun Sep 30, 2012 4:24 am

JACKSONVILLE wrote:There are two points i want to point out.

1. In my honest opinion I think Hamilton has gone for the money, 100% no doubts. Mercedes our a midfield team lool that is glaringly obvious the best they can hope for every race is 6th to 10th thats it as they our clearly not adhead of the redbulls, ferrari nor the Mccalren. I hope he enjoys his paypacket. I also think Hamilton is not a team player his a me me me type of a guy he has never built a team or raise a team from the ashes i.e michael schumacher 1996 with Ferrari, having gone almost 20 years without winning the world championship. I just dont see Hamilton having that ability and Mercedes quickly coming up with a week in week out race winning car like the top 3 quick enough and is hamilton not the type of guy to go on his radio and complain about lack of pace well enjoy the constant crying over the radio MR ROSS YAWN SELLOUT. Hamilton is no senna nor schumacher NEVER WILL WIN A WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP WITH MERCS AND I HOPE HE FAILS.

2. I do fear that if the mercs suddenly become quick next season schumacher will get all the blame and people will say told you he was just --- and so on, but the car would clearly have been developed under schummi that is a fact, but i hope the car is still a midfield team that will be very good loool as I cant wait to see Hamilton in the midfield battling williams etc and getting passed by the redbulls and so looooooooooooool
Well, well, if it isn't someone who has "I HATE HAMILTON & HOPE HE BURNS" plastered on his head. :P
#braindrain
" If you want to win, get a Finn" - Hakkinen

phillippe
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Re: Hamilton to leave for Mercedes 2013

Post by phillippe » Sun Sep 30, 2012 4:37 am

Nando wrote:I don't think any team can guarantee a driver sucess, they will know that answer in AUS Q3.

If we are going by modern day sucess Brawn has won a title lter then Mclaren and he has numerous titles before that under his belt.
No doubt mclaren can build quick cars but they just cant get it together.
If it werent for trulli we would have laughed at Mclaren by now.
In terms of championships they are on the verge of being a laughing stock with that budget.
They havent won a WCC in 14 years.

From Hamiltons point of view it seems mclaren is the sinkint boat, not Mercedes.
It also seems he sees this as a project that needs developing as im sure he knows where Mercedes have been for the last three years.

At first i thought wtf are you doing Ham but the more i think about it i think man im glad you jumped that ship before it goes downhill again.
I agree that McLaren as a team has at various points lost the plot from a position of strength. But it doesn't look like Hamilton has left McLaren because of McLaren's underperformance. If McLaren were more relenting in their commercial negotiations (which btw I think Whitmarsh completely blew) my sense is Hamilton would have stayed at McLaren despite their bloopers this year. It appears he started seeking out other teams (and rightly so perhaps) only once McLaren, unbelievably, proposed a pay cut. Even as negotiation posturing, this would have been infuriating, and hence possibly the approach to Mercedes in the first place.

If we were to refer to historical performance, then the Honda and BAR days should also be reckoned as well in my view. Even the Brawn title may more be an aberration rather than a real reflection of the team's ability to develop a championship winning car. Once the other teams developed their double diffusors, the BGP-001 no longer looked like a work of genius as initially perceived.

True, Brawn has those titles from the Ferrari days. But once we give due credit to Byrne as the designer of those utterly dominant cars and Todt as the TP, it would look like Brawn was not the key behind those titles.

Hence, a move to this team based on a perception of some latent potential to win WDCs over and above McLaren's abilities (despite their admitted fallibilities) is a rather bold move.

Just to clarify, I am not judging Hamilton's move in the sense of right or wrong as some other posters are suggesting. It is just that in my view, the basis of his move makes some kind of sense only once the commercial aspects are factored in. Not that there is anything wrong whatsoever with that.

Shakeman
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Re: Hamilton to leave for Mercedes 2013

Post by Shakeman » Sun Sep 30, 2012 12:53 pm

@phillippe

I don't think the move to Mercedes is all about the money. Clearly money is a component and may have spurred XIX to look at other options but the attraction of helping to bring a name like Merc further to the front of the grid must be attractive for any driver. There are many was to create a legacy in F1 and to bring an under performing mid field team with a great legacy in F1 back to the front would be a massive career highlight for HAM.

How can anyone underestimate the Brawn factor? Ferrari were an in-fighting joke before he galvanised the teams within the team in Italy. I can also recall the uncanny knack Brawn had for calling strategy during the Schu years, they were always one step ahead of the spider and turned safety cars into a win/win opportunity. Brawn is a formidable operator in F1.

Who was driving the Brawn car when it began to lose pace? Who has been off the pace in the quickest car this season? The Brawn car performance slump may have been amplified by the driver inability to work with how the car feels just like this season. HAM is not BUT. We must remember Brawn didn't have the resources to develop through the season like the other teams like RB and McLaren which is more likely the reason for the performance fall off.

If Ham stayed at McLaren that would due the perception too. A perception that another competitive car would follow another and that the screw up would disappear. Historically McLaren don't build fast cars year on year, HAM knows that himself having driven some dogs (that have only become good once the title was lost) in his time there. Maybe Brawn didn't need to sell Merc that hard to get HAM in the end.

It's nice to see Lauda change his tune though.

Dragonfly
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Re: Hamilton to leave for Mercedes 2013

Post by Dragonfly » Sun Sep 30, 2012 12:55 pm

Shakeman wrote:@phillippe
..............
How can anyone underestimate the Brawn factor? Ferrari were an in-fighting joke before he galvanised the teams within the team in Italy. I can also recall the uncanny knack Brawn had for calling strategy during the Schu years, they were always one step ahead of the spider and turned safety cars into a win/win opportunity. Brawn is a formidable operator in F1.
.........................
I am sorry but it was the Todt factor who did the trick.
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Nando
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Re: Hamilton to leave for Mercedes 2013

Post by Nando » Sun Sep 30, 2012 12:57 pm

Dragonfly wrote:
Shakeman wrote:@phillippe
..............
How can anyone underestimate the Brawn factor? Ferrari were an in-fighting joke before he galvanised the teams within the team in Italy. I can also recall the uncanny knack Brawn had for calling strategy during the Schu years, they were always one step ahead of the spider and turned safety cars into a win/win opportunity. Brawn is a formidable operator in F1.
.........................
I am sorry but it was the Todt factor who did the trick.
Many factors played in. Just as with all the other teams through history.
"Il Phenomeno" - The one they fear the most!

"2% of the world's population own 50% of the world's wealth."

marcush.
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Re: Hamilton to leave for Mercedes 2013

Post by marcush. » Sun Sep 30, 2012 1:12 pm

Schumacher joining Ferrari back then had nothing to do with Brawn -Schumacher was convinced by Todt and only after one year they hired Brawn .I´m not sure when Byrne came -before or after Brawn ..but Schumacher started winning with Ferrari before Brawns arrival.

snoop1050
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Re: Hamilton to leave for Mercedes 2013

Post by snoop1050 » Sun Sep 30, 2012 1:27 pm

I can also recall the uncanny knack Brawn had for calling strategy during the Schu years, they were always one step ahead of the spider and turned safety cars into a win/win opportunity
i guessed you missed all the pure genius stratergy calls at merc.

especially the 2 qualifying ones where nico and michael didnt cross the line in time for a q3 lap :lol:

Nando
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Re: Hamilton to leave for Mercedes 2013

Post by Nando » Sun Sep 30, 2012 1:30 pm

marcush. wrote:Schumacher joining Ferrari back then had nothing to do with Brawn -Schumacher was convinced by Todt and only after one year they hired Brawn .I´m not sure when Byrne came -before or after Brawn ..but Schumacher started winning with Ferrari before Brawns arrival.
Schumacher joins in 1996.
Wins three races.
At the end of 96 both Byrne and Brawn jumps onboard the ship.

3 years later came the first WCC and 4 years later came the first WDC with this group.
"Il Phenomeno" - The one they fear the most!

"2% of the world's population own 50% of the world's wealth."

Vanja #66
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Re: Hamilton to leave for Mercedes 2013

Post by Vanja #66 » Sun Sep 30, 2012 2:13 pm

Nando wrote:Schumacher joins in 1996.
Wins three races.
At the end of 96 both Byrne and Brawn jumps onboard the ship.

3 years later came the first WCC and 4 years later came the first WDC with this group.
True.

However... Schumi had a chance to take 97. title also, if he was somewhat wiser in the last race. In 99. he had that crash and lost 6 races due to it, so title was lost before the middle of the season... Which means he basically had a chance the very year Brawn and Byrne started working. Considering what Brawn did in these 3 years, thought of Byrne being more important in that calculation gets the needed weight...

Nando
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Re: Hamilton to leave for Mercedes 2013

Post by Nando » Sun Sep 30, 2012 2:26 pm

Vanja #66 wrote:
Nando wrote:Schumacher joins in 1996.
Wins three races.
At the end of 96 both Byrne and Brawn jumps onboard the ship.

3 years later came the first WCC and 4 years later came the first WDC with this group.
True.

However... Schumi had a chance to take 97. title also, if he was somewhat wiser in the last race. In 99. he had that crash and lost 6 races due to it, so title was lost before the middle of the season... Which means he basically had a chance the very year Brawn and Byrne started working. Considering what Brawn did in these 3 years, thought of Byrne being more important in that calculation gets the needed weight...
Not so sure he would have won in 99, Hakkinen scored more points then him in the races he participated in before the accident.

32p - Schumacher
40p - Hakkinen

Reason Irvine got so close was because he only had 1 retirement in contrast to Hakkinen´s 5.

but yea, Byrne obviously had a huge impact in the Ferrari dynasty. Same with RBR and Newey.
"Il Phenomeno" - The one they fear the most!

"2% of the world's population own 50% of the world's wealth."