whats wrong with the renault engines?

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dans79
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Re: whats wrong with the renault engines?

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http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/112346
In a Renault preview document sent out last week it warned that one of the biggest problems with the new energy stores was coping with the large electromagnetic forces.

It said: "The electromagnetic forces can impact the accuracy of sensors, which are particularly sensitive.

"Balancing the forces is like trying to carry a house of cards in a storm - a delicate and risky operation."
I wonder if this is just a coincidence? electromagnetic shielding is about the only type of fundamental design flaw that I can think of that can be fixed over night. Basically pull the batteries and wrap them with more shielding material.
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munudeges
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Re: whats wrong with the renault engines?

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It'll be a battery pod issue and they should know what the problem is. There'll be a late night there.

Apparently Red Bull had a turbo problem of some kind.

madly
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Re: whats wrong with the renault engines?

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dans79 wrote:http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/112346
In a Renault preview document sent out last week it warned that one of the biggest problems with the new energy stores was coping with the large electromagnetic forces.

It said: "The electromagnetic forces can impact the accuracy of sensors, which are particularly sensitive.

"Balancing the forces is like trying to carry a house of cards in a storm - a delicate and risky operation."
I wonder if this is just a coincidence? electromagnetic shielding is about the only type of fundamental design flaw that I can think of that can be fixed over night. Basically pull the batteries and wrap them with more shielding material.
It's not easy at all, especially inside F1 car. If it's electromagnetic field and noises, then shielding is ineffective and very hard to stop. It's not electrostatic shield, which stops electromagnetic pulses, but magnetic shield like muMetal or other magnetic stopping materials. To be effective they should have their thickness and they are heavy.

Pup
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Re: whats wrong with the renault engines?

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dans79 wrote:electromagnetic shielding is about the only type of fundamental design flaw that I can think of that can be fixed over night.
Software?

dans79
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Re: whats wrong with the renault engines?

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madly wrote: It's not easy at all, especially inside F1 car. If it's electromagnetic field and noises, then shielding is ineffective and very hard to stop. It's not electrostatic shield, which stops electromagnetic pulses, but magnetic shield like muMetal or other magnetic stopping materials. To be effective they should have their thickness and they are heavy.
My degree is in physics, so I understand the nuances of the field.

If memory serves aerospace companies have started using carbon composites for shielding to save weight. I would assume F1 is using a similar technology to help keep the weight down.
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Hail22
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Re: whats wrong with the renault engines?

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Ted Kravtiz about Vettel / Red bull but briefly highlighting Renault's issue "battery overheating".

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Z8Nx-d0th0[/youtube]

It was quite cool / mild in Jerez (based on meteorology reports) so if they cannot rectify it soon...Bahrain won't be forgiving!
If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari.

Gilles Villeneuve

dans79
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Re: whats wrong with the renault engines?

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Pup wrote:
dans79 wrote:electromagnetic shielding is about the only type of fundamental design flaw that I can think of that can be fixed over night.
Software?
they way the story read it sounded more like a physical fix was required.
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Skippon
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Re: whats wrong with the renault engines?

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Actually its not about shielding the cells at all. Its more a case of the current carrying cables from the cells to the motors carry serious currents, that are commutated by the motor and thus radiate. The packing of the control electronics is closely integrated between both and hence you have electromagnetic compatibility issues (EMC).
Of course its the same for all 3 three engine manufacturers - all three of which are predominantly mechanical engineering companies not electrical !!!!!!
:roll:

dans79
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Re: whats wrong with the renault engines?

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Skippon wrote: Of course its the same for all 3 three engine manufacturers - all three of which are predominantly mechanical engineering companies not electrical !!!!!!
:roll:
I'm not sure how it works in Europe but here in the states all engineers take basic physics classes, that cove fundamental electricity and magnetism concepts.
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Daliracing
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Re: whats wrong with the renault engines?

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on the homepage there is an article of the issues with these engines sounds like tomorrow they will 'normally' run

Pup
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Re: whats wrong with the renault engines?

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dans79 wrote:I'm not sure how it works in Europe but here in the states all engineers take basic physics classes, that cove fundamental electricity and magnetism concepts.
We also require architects to take structures classes, and even test them on it. But trust one, you don't want us doing structural design. :P

dans79
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Re: whats wrong with the renault engines?

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Pup wrote:
dans79 wrote:I'm not sure how it works in Europe but here in the states all engineers take basic physics classes, that cove fundamental electricity and magnetism concepts.
We also require architects to take structures classes, and even test them on it. But trust one, you don't want us doing structural design. :P
lol, I wasn't suggesting that. What I meant was the mechanical engineers should have enough knowledge to know that they should have brought in some specialists to make sure every thing was kosher.
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Richard
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Re: whats wrong with the renault engines?

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These teams aren't a bunch of amateur metal bashers who don't know about the new fangled electricity. They'll have very clever electrical engineers with very clever electrical engineering degrees. They'll know all about magnetism and interference, but in the quest for performance they'll have taken everything to the limit. That occasionally means they step over the limit.

Mandrake
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Re: whats wrong with the renault engines?

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Do we really think that with the ambient temps in Jerez and the amount of running there are actually already cooling issues from a packaging perspective for the Renault-powered teams? I highly doubt it.....3 laps running, not at full speed causes massive overheating? If that was true, then goodbye Renault for the next seasons. Even if the engina was on par power output wise, the amounts of cooling needed would make the cars way too inefficient.

EDIT: Now the RB stopped steaming after 0,5 laps. Ridiculous :D

Manoah2u
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Re: whats wrong with the renault engines?

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something makes me think lotus expected this. they're not losing ANYTHING at all! =D>
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.