whats wrong with the renault engines?

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
User avatar
motobaleno
22
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 12:58 pm

Re: whats wrong with the renault engines?

Post

R_Redding wrote:There is no need for Renault to panick over Homologation.

The appendix 4 Homologation chart is very generous and gives them years before major items changes are locked in ,to the point where they need to consult with the other engine manufacturers.
They can still change 61kgs of the weighed 66kgs total upto 2016
This is the current Homologation schedule ....

http://i897.photobucket.com/albums/ac18 ... f756e3.jpg

http://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/ ... -01-23.pdf

Rob
Yes, but I think that all those items can be changed for the next year. not during this one...otherwise the very term "homologation" looses sense (and infact appendix 4 in the colums says "for" not "until")

rjsa
rjsa
69
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 2:01 am

Re: whats wrong with the renault engines?

Post

rjsa wrote:
Abarth wrote:In another Forum, an insider (thats for sure) gave a fantastic information about the Renault issues and how they will solve them:
For those interested. Here are some of the changes Renault have made since Jerez.

Change of battery cell provider...
That's the second 'insider' over there. The first one didn't survive lat weeks test, his fixes didn't work. Lets see what happens now.
It seems all was no good after all.

User avatar
Juzh
573
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 7:45 am

Re: whats wrong with the renault engines?

Post

motobaleno wrote:
R_Redding wrote:There is no need for Renault to panick over Homologation.

The appendix 4 Homologation chart is very generous and gives them years before major items changes are locked in ,to the point where they need to consult with the other engine manufacturers.
They can still change 61kgs of the weighed 66kgs total upto 2016
This is the current Homologation schedule ....

http://i897.photobucket.com/albums/ac18 ... f756e3.jpg

http://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/ ... -01-23.pdf

Rob
Yes, but I think that all those items can be changed for the next year. not during this one...otherwise the very term "homologation" looses sense (and infact appendix 4 in the colums says "for" not "until")
From JAonF1:
If one of the power trains is performing significantly worse than the others, can the manufacturrer apply for a performance upgrade?
Not in principle. However if that situation arises it is clearly not in the interests of the sport so some common sense needs to be applied. The rule makers looked at this and pre-empted it in some ways; they decided that all manufacturers should be allowed to make a small number of performance upgrades after one year, so the engines will be re-homologated this time next year. And in 2016 there will be a smaller list of areas where they can make further performance steps.

The spirit of this rule (rather like any innovation in chassis design a team introduces which others cannot copy) is that if one manufacturer has the edge he should be allowed to enjoy the fruits of his hard work for a season, but then the others will be allowed to close up next season. But if there is one manufacturer lagging behind, then what happens?

User avatar
Kiril Varbanov
250
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 2:00 pm
Location: Bulgaria, Sofia

Re: whats wrong with the renault engines?

Post

Strategy group meeting today, Renault has asked for deadline extension.

oT v1
oT v1
1
Joined: Mon May 21, 2012 2:46 pm

Re: whats wrong with the renault engines?

Post

Kiril Varbanov wrote:Strategy group meeting today, Renault has asked for deadline extension.
and of course they'll get it, 'too big to fail' comes to mind, shows a weakness of having 3 engine suppliers sharing the entire field. I hope Merc and Ferrari reignited their engine development when they saw renault struggling, foreseeing an extension...
The Power of Dreams

CBeck113
CBeck113
104
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2013 6:43 pm

Re: whats wrong with the renault engines?

Post

I posted that exact thought in the Scudderia thread, that the comment from Stefano about being 75 hp behind Mercedes was made to motivate Renault into asking for the extension, so they can add some late, new ideas.
“Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony!” Monty Python and the Holy Grail

User avatar
FrukostScones
193
Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 4:41 pm
Location: European Union

Re: whats wrong with the renault engines?

Post

AMuS article on Renault asking for extened deadline:

http://translate.google.de/translate?sl ... ml&act=url

:mrgreen:

I blame this on not testing the engines in mules beforhand. Ridiculous that this wasn't (allowed?) done extensively! :x

Now we have this probably damaging scenario for Renault and the sport. It is not worth argueing that they didn't do their homework... F1 cannot afford to exile Renault, while Honda can gain Mercedes data and steal their engineers (they do) and can develop a more powerful copycat Mercedes PU for 2015 while using mules (yes, they will do this even if they deny it here: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/108796).
Last edited by FrukostScones on Fri Feb 28, 2014 10:40 am, edited 3 times in total.
Finishing races is important, but racing is more important.

User avatar
DAMNINice
25
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2012 7:50 am

Re: whats wrong with the renault engines?

Post

BREAKING NEWS from AMuS about Renault engines..

short version translated:

The deadline for engine suppliers when they have to give the engine to the FIA for Homologation is tonight.

Renault told at the weekend that they have sorted out the biggest problems. But now they have a new topic on the agenda where they wnat to have a delayed deadline by TWO or THREE months!!!

Seems like they are in big trouble.

There are rumors that Jean Todt and Renault president Carlos Ghosn met already to discuss this topic.
BUT. only one Veto by another team in the strategy group (Red Bull, Mercedes, Ferrari, McLaren, Lotus, Williams) will stop the delay.

So this will be very interesting.
source: http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 63169.html
___________________________________________________________________________________

REal men play with twins!

Crabbia
Crabbia
11
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 9:39 pm
Location: ZA

Re: whats wrong with the renault engines?

Post

i think the only way to accomplish this fairly is to move the homologation date back for everyone.
This means that mercedes and ferrari will still be able to develop but it will get them on board and have a better chance of the proposal not being vetoed.

it will be very interesting indeed...
A wise man once told me you cant polish a turd...

User avatar
iotar__
7
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:31 am

Re: whats wrong with the renault engines?

Post

DAMNINice wrote:BREAKING NEWS from AMuS about Renault engines..

short version translated:

The deadline for engine suppliers when they have to give the engine to the FIA for Homologation is tonight.

Renault told at the weekend that they have sorted out the biggest problems. But now they have a new topic on the agenda where they wnat to have a delayed deadline by TWO or THREE months!!!

Seems like they are in big trouble.

There are rumors that Jean Todt and Renault president Carlos Ghosn met already to discuss this topic.
BUT. only one Veto by another team in the strategy group (Red Bull, Mercedes, Ferrari, McLaren, Lotus, Williams) will stop the delay.

So this will be very interesting.
source: http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 63169.html
It's the same "trouble" and it has always been big even at best case scenario. Not big enough for constant internet drama hence 6 months/slapping Mercedes engine typo of noise and up and down emotions ("they're done"! - "they solved it"!).

I'd say it's about time/technicalities - actual freeze and freedom to work on it without applying for changes every time they need them. I think they'll get something out of it but not at the first attempt and unconditionally.

User avatar
jagunx51
86
Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 11:06 am

Re: whats wrong with the renault engines?

Post

DAMNINice wrote:BREAKING NEWS from AMuS about Renault engines..

short version translated:

The deadline for engine suppliers when they have to give the engine to the FIA for Homologation is tonight.

Renault told at the weekend that they have sorted out the biggest problems. But now they have a new topic on the agenda where they wnat to have a delayed deadline by TWO or THREE months!!!

Seems like they are in big trouble.

There are rumors that Jean Todt and Renault president Carlos Ghosn met already to discuss this topic.
BUT. only one Veto by another team in the strategy group (Red Bull, Mercedes, Ferrari, McLaren, Lotus, Williams) will stop the delay.

So this will be very interesting.
source: http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 63169.html
just dreaming ....
Image
............!!!!

User avatar
SiLo
123
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 6:09 pm

Re: whats wrong with the renault engines?

Post

I can see why Mercedes teams would want to veto this decision, they have the upper hand. But then I can also see why they would accept and extension for EVERYONE because they can improve on their already superior design.

Swings and roundabouts, but I would love to see them veto it (if possible) because drama is always fun!
Felipe Baby!

User avatar
Holm86
244
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 2:37 am
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

Re: whats wrong with the renault engines?

Post

SiLo wrote:I can see why Mercedes teams would want to veto this decision, they have the upper hand. But then I can also see why they would accept and extension for EVERYONE because they can improve on their already superior design.

Swings and roundabouts, but I would love to see them veto it (if possible) because drama is always fun!
Exactly. Mercedes and Ferrari would get more time to refine their own units. And seriously what is competetion without competitors?? I hope no one will veto this.

User avatar
Blackout
927
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 3:12 am

Re: whats wrong with the renault engines?

Post

SiLo wrote:I can see why Mercedes teams would want to veto this decision, they have the upper hand. But then I can also see why they would accept and extension for EVERYONE because they can improve on their already superior design.

Swings and roundabouts, but I would love to see them veto it (if possible) because drama is always fun!
Superior design ? we dont know yet... :mrgreen:

acosmichippo
acosmichippo
33
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:51 am
Location: Washington DC

Re: whats wrong with the renault engines?

Post

Holm86 wrote:
SiLo wrote:I can see why Mercedes teams would want to veto this decision, they have the upper hand. But then I can also see why they would accept and extension for EVERYONE because they can improve on their already superior design.

Swings and roundabouts, but I would love to see them veto it (if possible) because drama is always fun!
Exactly. Mercedes and Ferrari would get more time to refine their own units. And seriously what is competetion without competitors?? I hope no one will veto this.
The issue is room for improvement. If Mercedes or Ferrari think a couple months will only buy them a marginal increas in performance, but Renault can improve a ton, why would they allow it?