whats wrong with the renault engines?

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Pup
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Re: whats wrong with the renault engines?

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Keep in mind that the 20 week figure comes from TJ13. I personally think they're spot on more often than not, and so I don't mind quoting them - but do keep in mind that they operate mainly on paddock rumor with apparently some insider info.

Also keep in mind the MP4-26, which was a total disaster in testing, then a miracle occurred and they were competitive at the first race. So I wouldn't count the Renault teams out just yet.

But it does sound like they'll need that miracle.

Sombrero
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Re: whats wrong with the renault engines?

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But it does sound like they'll need that miracle.
or buy Cosworth engines.

http://www.racecar-engineering.com/news ... ower-unit/

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Daliracing
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Re: whats wrong with the renault engines?

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Could be an option, but i don't think this will happen

Rikhart
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Re: whats wrong with the renault engines?

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Would anyone be surprised if red bull would suddenly cease the contract with renault, and buy some other engine brand? This is probably cause for termination of contract.

skoop
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Re: whats wrong with the renault engines?

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they seem to be optimistic that they'll have fixed their problems until bahrein test.
how reliable is that source that said renault will need 20 weeks and can only run their engine at 75%? sounds like the 100ps rumor about the merc engine to me.

Renault insists that the problems that have struck its Formula 1 teams are fixable by the next Bahrain test.

The French car manufacturer has had a difficult time at Jerez in Spain this week, with its teams struggling with reliability.

Most in the spotlight has been Red Bull, with the reigning champion outfit completing just 14 laps over the course of the first three days.

But as work continues at Renault's Viry-Chatillon base on Thursday night to implement solutions, the company's F1 engine chief Rob White has made it clear that its problems are curable by Bahrain.

Red Bull and Renault's problems - in-depth analysis

In the meantime, Renault is focusing on workaround solutions to the software issues that have blighted its running this week so its teams can complete valuable mileage on Friday.

"We are extremely confident that the problems we have experienced can be dealt with," White told AUTOSPORT.

"We don't have a single minor problem or indeed a big howler that is causing the trouble.

"Instead, we have made significant progress and expect, with the understanding we now have, the workaround we have put in place, and with more confirmation work on the dyno overnight, to be able to run tomorrow.

"It will perhaps be in a fashion that most resembles what we would have expected to start the first day with. And if we can do that, then it shouldn't be too shabby."

MULTIPLE ISSUES

AUTOSPORT understands that Renault has suffered multiple issues this week with its teams.

The energy store issues on Wednesday were cured by hardware changes made that night.

Gary Anderson's day three verdict

However, there have been subsequent software and mapping problems that have affected the working of the Renault power unit turbo and boost control.

A temporary fix has now been found to allow the cars to run in a reduced performance capacity.

Renault lorries

Beyond those issues that Toro Rosso and Caterham have encountered, Red Bull is suffering from severe overheating problems that are resulting in parts burning.

It is understood the overheating is a legacy of the aggressive packaging of the car, with modifications by both Red Bull and Renault almost certainly needing to be made in time for Bahrain.

White is confident that there is time to get on top of the problems before the second test next month.

"Looking forward to Bahrain and beyond, the aim is to make best use of the time available and to get ready for then," he said.

"We had objectives for the first test that won't have been fully realised and therefore the step up we need for Bahrain is absolutely bigger.

"But we are determined and committed to get there and we will work with the teams to fix the problem."
source: autosport.com
Last edited by skoop on Thu Jan 30, 2014 11:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Faustino
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Re: whats wrong with the renault engines?

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Anyone hearing the sound of the worlds smallest violin being played for Red Bull at the moment? :)

They won last year with so much in hand, i really would have thought they would be more on top of this years package, engine issues aside.

This is an absolute shambles for Renault though and a huge win for Mercedes as manufacturers at the moment, the whole point of taking part in F1 is brand awareness and prestige of being the engine that's winning races.

There is a very real danger of several teams having to pull out of this years championship if things continue like this. Red Bull could do this laying the blame at Renault which would totally deflect attention away from their own deficiencies.

Or there's another option, the Renault powered teams could opt to go with Ferrari or Mercedes units, i'm sure they could claim a breach of contract with their supplier in any legal issues.

And finally, on the issue of fairness in terms of testing.. the FIA could open up more testing time for all the teams, they could all use it.

OR, if the likes of Red Bull want to carry out a day or two of extra testing, it should cost championship points for the driver and constructor.

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Daliracing
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Re: whats wrong with the renault engines?

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Rikhart wrote:Would anyone be surprised if red bull would suddenly cease the contract with renault, and buy some other engine brand? This is probably cause for termination of contract.
Seems strange to me because of their title sponsor. i guess Infiniti would not be happy with that but i also understands Red Bull they want to defend the title. But i guess its to early to judge their could be indeed a miracle

321apex
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Re: whats wrong with the renault engines?

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MuseF1 wrote:@321apex

There are wastegates, in case of ERS problems/failure.
Please bear with me if I am wrong on this, but the way I understood the F1 engine package, the MGU-H which is attached to the turbocharger shaft is the only technical means to regulate turbo boost. That means, there are no wastegates, which traditionally bleed off exhaust gases from over driving the turbocharger. What I think you are referring to is a blow off valve in case there is a terminal boost overpressure.

In this case then, the MGU-H must get rid off it's electrical energy while it provides torsional resistance to the spinning turbo. Quite possibly this is the nature of Renault's challenge.

Manoah2u
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Re: whats wrong with the renault engines?

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Rikhart wrote:Would anyone be surprised if red bull would suddenly cease the contract with renault, and buy some other engine brand? This is probably cause for termination of contract.
i wouldn't be surprised for any renault-powered team to cease it and go for the competition.
indeed, if cosworth would suddenly pop up a functioning engine, they'd even have a chance getting a deal.

i still think renault would loose too much from failing this, so i'm feeling like it sounds dubious that they couldn't fix it in 20 weeks. surely 25% off their designed power level is unacceptable, especially since nobody knows if a renault engine at 100% even is close to a Merc or Ferrari engine at 100%. Which makes me think they'll have it fixed way earlier then the grim picture painted - but then it could still be worse then thought.

i'm absolutely sure some teams atleast are concidering switching. Toro Rosso surely will have regrets, even though they have run a 1:29 and made some laps.

From all teams, Lotus are the only ones that haven't confirmed their engines for 2014. i'm really really curious.
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.

dans79
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Re: whats wrong with the renault engines?

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I think heads will role, if Renault powered cars don't get more than a handful of laps in tomorrow, as then have almost no useful test data.

I don't think teams are just going to be able to switch manufactures either, as these engines aren't just sitting around waiting to be sold.
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radosav
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Re: whats wrong with the renault engines?

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From ''TheScuderia'' forum , by member Dino:
This is the worst news about Renault today,

''French engine manufacturer had informed their customer teams that the maximum running their current power train could offer was 250km''.
AND
''Simply put, there are components in the Renault engine which will fail should it be pushed beyond around 75%. On top of this, the RB10 has cooling issues for the energy recovery systems, the engine and various other associated components''

and more here
http://thejudge13.com/2014/01/30/f1-tes ... rez-day-3/

Ganxxta
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Re: whats wrong with the renault engines?

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Was Renault not the one pushing for smaller engines back in the day?

Sorry I have no pity, I would understand if it was Ferrari with those issues, as they fought hard against this rule change and don't have experience with such engines. (they use naturally aspirated V12s in their roadcars :roll: )

But Renault? Don't they have some smaller Renault Series Formulas where they use turbo charged smaller engines?

Or is it really only an issue with the ERS?

And how did they test it on the dyno? Those problems should have been visible stationary, as most teams didn't run much to run into troubles.

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Juzh
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Re: whats wrong with the renault engines?

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radosav wrote:From ''TheScuderia'' forum , by member Dino:
This is the worst news about Renault today,

''French engine manufacturer had informed their customer teams that the maximum running their current power train could offer was 250km''.
AND
''Simply put, there are components in the Renault engine which will fail should it be pushed beyond around 75%. On top of this, the RB10 has cooling issues for the energy recovery systems, the engine and various other associated components''

and more here
http://thejudge13.com/2014/01/30/f1-tes ... rez-day-3/
This has been posted like a million times already.

radosav
radosav
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Re: whats wrong with the renault engines?

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Juzh wrote:
radosav wrote:From ''TheScuderia'' forum , by member Dino:
This is the worst news about Renault today,

''French engine manufacturer had informed their customer teams that the maximum running their current power train could offer was 250km''.
AND
''Simply put, there are components in the Renault engine which will fail should it be pushed beyond around 75%. On top of this, the RB10 has cooling issues for the energy recovery systems, the engine and various other associated components''

and more here
http://thejudge13.com/2014/01/30/f1-tes ... rez-day-3/
This has been posted like a million times already.
just came to web site, better million times than none :D

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iotar__
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Re: whats wrong with the renault engines?

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Previously this "source" claimed it was about crankshafts in engine batch for tests. It hasn't been confirmed by anybody, is it continuation of this theory or separate issue? Renault claims there are various problems ERS etc. + cooling packaging for RB but:
"We don't have a single minor problem or indeed a big howler that is causing the trouble." http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/112368

Since it's a stage of accepting every rumour at face value what exactly is the claim here to check its credibility later? That they won't run over 75% before Silverstone or is it about putting together two facts: they can't run over 75% and 20 weeks to rectify the problem? 20 weeks for what precisely, to run over 75%, 100%, anything in between earlier?