Engine Unfreeze

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turbof1
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Re: Engine Unfreeze

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The majority was in favor, meaning that we'll have in-season development atleast from 2016 on onwards. However, Mercedes teams voted against it. Another meeting with unanimous agreement is required to get it running from next season onwards.
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diffuser
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Re: Engine Unfreeze

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thisisatest wrote:The rules are already like that, with set number of points available, etc. It's just at yearly intervals now. While I agree that adding complex layers of rules can cheapen the sport, this is a very small addition to rules that are already present.

One problem with a race by race points system for changes is how do you track it? I mean you're allowed 5 complete engines. So obviously you'd only be allowed to make changes to parts you haven't used...By the 3ird race they've already used parts of 3 engines. so you only have 2 full engines you can make changes to. My example might be a bit exaggerated but I'm trying to make a point. I think the best thing to do would be to allow a 1 time change. Mid season would be the best time.

I've mentioned this before, the big issue this year, it the large edge Merc engines have over the others. Which is why a mid engine unfreeze would have made sense. The deeper we go into this PU spec the less of an issue this will be as the Merc edge will decrease, an the less relevant this subject becomes. It will be interesting to see how the PU match up next year. If there is still a large difference then you need to give the manufactures a chance to catch up or we'll just watch Merc win 90% of the races again.

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diffuser
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Re: Engine Unfreeze

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WilliamsF1 wrote:Why should engine unfreeze cost more money? The developments happening in the factory through the year is going to be deployed on track through the year unlike only during the off season.

I think the cost factor is simple...

- Development is only part of it and the development will not always be the same. For example Ferrari are developing the PU for next year, so those changes are being made with the big picture for next years car. Some of the changes may or may not be possible on this years configuration and even if they are the parts will not end up being identical to next year's. so there are add development cost.

-Ferrari make engines for 2 other teams...It's cheaper to make 15 power units of 1 spec that 15 PU of 4 or 5 different specs.

-When you modify a part mid season, you'll have used parts of an older design that will not be used and therefore thrown away. that is an added cost.

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Re: Engine Unfreeze

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turbof1 wrote:The majority was in favor, meaning that we'll have in-season development atleast from 2016 on onwards. However, Mercedes teams voted against it. Another meeting with unanimous agreement is required to get it running from next season onwards.
Now down to whether Mercedes and costumers want to hold on to it for as long as possible.

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Kiril Varbanov
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Re: Engine Unfreeze

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It's fair to say it's Mercedes only, not the teams who are against the engine unfreeze. Moreover, there was a preliminary gentleman agreement in Singapore that this is a GO situation. Now this has changed. I'm not pointing fingers or judging, the arguments will come out soon.

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FW17
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Re: Engine Unfreeze

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diffuser wrote:
WilliamsF1 wrote:Why should engine unfreeze cost more money? The developments happening in the factory through the year is going to be deployed on track through the year unlike only during the off season.

I think the cost factor is simple...

- Development is only part of it and the development will not always be the same. For example Ferrari are developing the PU for next year, so those changes are being made with the big picture for next years car. Some of the changes may or may not be possible on this years configuration and even if they are the parts will not end up being identical to next year's. so there are add development cost.

-Ferrari make engines for 2 other teams...It's cheaper to make 15 power units of 1 spec that 15 PU of 4 or 5 different specs.

-When you modify a part mid season, you'll have used parts of an older design that will not be used and therefore thrown away. that is an added cost.
If they get it wrong they are not going to make architecture change to the engine more than once. Customers can either take the revised one and rework their car or use the old spec. Anyway a production run of 6 sets per car is not so bad on logistics.

The seasons are long with 20 races over 8 months not some 10 races.

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mikeerfol
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Re: Engine Unfreeze

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Kiril Varbanov wrote:It's fair to say it's Mercedes only, not the teams who are against the engine unfreeze. Moreover, there was a preliminary gentleman agreement in Singapore that this is a GO situation. Now this has changed. I'm not pointing fingers or judging, the arguments will come out soon.
I read that Mercedes, Williams and Lotus voted against it.

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Re: Engine Unfreeze

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http://adamcooperf1.com/2014/10/10/wolf ... f-meeting/

Wolff is pissed at Horner for outing the results and votes.

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Re: Engine Unfreeze

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mikeerfol wrote: ...
I read that Mercedes, Williams and Lotus voted against it.
Wow, what a surprise...?

Today's practice just makes a mockery of the situation, Alonso vs MHPE.
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Re: Engine Unfreeze

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Today's practice? Hasn't it always been so? Teams with the advantage refuse to change the rules.

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FW17
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Re: Engine Unfreeze

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Richard wrote:Today's practice? Hasn't it always been so? Teams with the advantage refuse to change the rules.
Didn't red bull kind of give up the blown diffuser

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Re: Engine Unfreeze

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WilliamsF1 wrote:
Richard wrote:Today's practice? Hasn't it always been so? Teams with the advantage refuse to change the rules.
Didn't red bull kind of give up the blown diffuser
Indeed, like Brabham gave up the BT46B, Renault the mass damper and the Toyota V12, only to mention a few.

Or rather, MrM used a heavy hand on the latter two.
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Re: Engine Unfreeze

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WilliamsF1 wrote:
Richard wrote:Today's practice? Hasn't it always been so? Teams with the advantage refuse to change the rules.
Didn't red bull kind of give up the blown diffuser
They got an engine map removed for one race, all changes to stop Red Bull was between seasons apart from that silverstone day.

Its actually hilarious listening to Horner now, for the last four years he was in Mercedes position and now all of a sudden its a major catastophy.
The Way i see it is everyone was aware of the rules before the season, you cant come and complain now because Renault did a shitty job AGAIN. Build your own engine instead or deal with it.
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Re: Engine Unfreeze

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SectorOne wrote:
WilliamsF1 wrote:
Richard wrote:Today's practice? Hasn't it always been so? Teams with the advantage refuse to change the rules.
Didn't red bull kind of give up the blown diffuser
They got an engine map removed for one race, all changes to stop Red Bull was between seasons apart from that silverstone day.

Its actually hilarious listening to Horner now, for the last four years he was in Mercedes position and now all of a sudden its a major catastophy.
The Way i see it is everyone was aware of the rules before the season, you cant come and complain now because Renault did a shitty job AGAIN. Build your own engine instead or deal with it.

I totally agree.

I wish Merc would take a much harder line against the other teams. The other teams/manufactures are behind because they screwed up, I mean they knew about the new engine rules years ahead of time.

Merc and Ferrari had to suck it up and deal with it when Renault was the best engine, it's only fair that Merc gets to reap the benefits of their hard work. All this lets change the rules talk is nothing more than sore losers throwing fits.
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siskue2005
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Re: Engine Unfreeze

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Yea agree with u guys, why would Merc suffer for doing a better job?