F1 sold to Liberty Media. Bernie Out?

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Gerhardsa
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Re: F1 sold to Liberty Media. Bernie Out?

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Moose wrote:
toraabe wrote:If F1 is going to be successful in USA you need an oval race . Michigan or Texas would have been nice venues :)
Nope - if F1 is going to be successful in the USA there's only one single action that needs to be made. Don't put the races on at 5am (or 8am depending on the coast you're on).

If the races started 4 hours later, F1 would instantly be more popular in the USA.
You are joking right?
So...basically turn every race into a day/night or night race (and have most of them rain out because of late afternoon evening summer thunderstorms), just for the US?
Is the US a potential market that can be penetrated more? Yes...sure. Will it ever pull the most viewers/supporters to F1? Absolutely not. So why cater in such a dramatic fashion, only to piss off your 80%-90% TV audience around the world?
Just PVR the races if you don't like getting up at 8am

bhall II
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Re: F1 sold to Liberty Media. Bernie Out?

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djos wrote:He's 86, he could literally drop dead at any time - no-one in their right mind would hitch their wagon up to him now when chances are he'll be gone in 5 years!
C'mon, I know you know better than that. How many times has Ecclestone been left for dead only to defy all expectations and rise again? The man is bulletproof, and that's why people still do business with him, even at his advanced age.

Liberty has already threatened Ferrari in terms of both political clout and revenue. If Ecclestone guarantees those, as he always has before, there's no reason to believe Ferrari would reject it. And where Ferrari goes, so too does F1's prestige and drawing power.

(For the record: I'm not saying anything about the situation is justified one way or the other.)

toraabe
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Re: F1 sold to Liberty Media. Bernie Out?

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Just_a_fan wrote:
toraabe wrote:At Michigan the throttle is 90 % flat out. They just have to lengthen the race to 600 km. No fuel limit
Brawn is talking about getting rid of gimmicks and you want to have the most gimmick thing possible: F1 on an oval. #-o
It is actually a matter of that a F1 driver/ team has to manage both road course, street, and oval.
In Europe we have two ovals, but it is in USA we have the best one.

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Andres125sx
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Re: F1 sold to Liberty Media. Bernie Out?

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bhall II wrote:It was a huge mistake for Liberty to push Ecclestone completely out of the picture. We're talking about a man who's worth $3 billion--[url=https://www.google.com/finance?q=NASDAQ ... i6BJHoqpAO]over 6x more than Liberty's operating income in 2015
You americans can only think about money? :mrgreen: :lol:

MrE has been a great businessman for his own wallet, I think nobody with a brain will ever dispute that bhall, or you read/heard something in that line? I doubt it.

But we´re talking about F1, not about MrE bank account. And that´s the problem, we´re suffering tracks with empty stands because they´re willing to pay double the money than any other traditional track, so now we can´t enjoy traditional and fun tracks like Magny Cours, and we´re forced to suffer some others like Barhein or Abu Dabhi...

The introduction of those tracks surely was great for MrE bank account but, do you think that was good for F1 or we fans?

While MrE bank account has continued raising, F1 audience has continued dropping. MrE bank account does not tell the whole picture bhall :wink:
bhall II wrote:
djos wrote:He's 86, he could literally drop dead at any time - no-one in their right mind would hitch their wagon up to him now when chances are he'll be gone in 5 years!
C'mon, I know you know better than that. How many times has Ecclestone been left for dead only to defy all expectations and rise again? The man is bulletproof
At 86 none is bulletproof Bhall :roll: but there´s an even more important factor, at 86 our brain is far from its optimal point. We tend to avoid changes, innovation is seen as an unneccesary risk... we become more conservatives. That´s exactly the opposite F1 does need.

wesley123
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Re: F1 sold to Liberty Media. Bernie Out?

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Andres125sx wrote: The introduction of those tracks surely was great for MrE bank account but, do you think that was good for F1 or we fans?
Many of those new tracks were in emerging markets, so yes, it is both good for F1 as well as it's fans.
While MrE bank account has continued raising, F1 audience has continued dropping. MrE bank account does not tell the whole picture bhall :wink:
Neither does audience numbers, because together with the drop in audience, the revenue has increased. The F1 calendar covers more of the world, reaching more people. Many new, big and lucrative sponsorship deals were signed as well.

F1 is owned by shareholders, who would like to see a return of their investment.

People really like to blame Ecclestone for everything wrong with F1, for some reason.
"Bite my shiny metal ass" - Bender

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iotar__
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Re: F1 sold to Liberty Media. Bernie Out?

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Since Brawn doesn't have any solutions why talk about it? That's because it's about image/marketing. He's introducing himself as a pure racing person, he doesn't like gimmicks, same as you fans as stated by fan polls. Did you know R. Brawn? Yes he's going to bring good old F1 back/No, but it looks like he's like us, disliking DRS and stuff ;-).

What about one stop boring races and no overtakes? Doesn't matter, they're not proper overtakes anyway but 'we'll see'. Tyres are bigger and look cool, cars are quicker, 'fans' like that.

bhall II
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Re: F1 sold to Liberty Media. Bernie Out?

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Andres125sx wrote:You americans can only think about money? :mrgreen: :lol:
Don't just read every third word this time. :wink:

It's simple: a vindictive, 86-year-old vampire who's worth $3 billion and has a Liberty-shaped chip on his shoulder can easily --- up that company's plans out of sheer spite if that's what he wants to do. He has nothing to lose, and he's done it before.

He can leverage his relationships with governments, promoters, teams, and sponsors to offer more favorable terms than their current deals with Liberty, contracts he himself arranged. He can do this without breaking a sweat (or the law) and still be filthy rich.

This isn't about money; it's about power. It's also exactly what killed open-wheel racing in the United States.

KeiKo403
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Re: F1 sold to Liberty Media. Bernie Out?

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Well I for 1 can't see Brawn, Bratches or Carey drinking a carton of milk to end a protest in order for a race weekend to continue. The things Bernie did this sport. Some maybe small others huge, some might be good others might be bad. At the end of the day though we're all here on an F1 forum discussing the sport he made what it is today.

Which one of these 3 will go to Russia and rub shoulders with Putin about a race there?
Whenever someone wanted an F1 race on their turf they know they'd get a bad deal because they we're dealing with Bernie. Now these 2 come along, which 1 makes the final decision?

zeph
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Re: F1 sold to Liberty Media. Bernie Out?

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bhall II wrote:
Andres125sx wrote:You americans can only think about money? :mrgreen: :lol:
Don't just read every third word this time. :wink:

It's simple: a vindictive, 86-year-old vampire who's worth $3 billion and has a Liberty-shaped chip on his shoulder can easily --- up that company's plans out of sheer spite if that's what he wants to do. He has nothing to lose, and he's done it before.

He can leverage his relationships with governments, promoters, teams, and sponsors to offer more favorable terms than their current deals with Liberty, contracts he himself arranged. He can do this without breaking a sweat (or the law) and still be filthy rich.

This isn't about money; it's about power. It's also exactly what killed open-wheel racing in the United States.

I would never underestimate BE nor his hunger for power, but Joe Saward has an interesting argument: For him to succeed in creating a breakaway series, he'd need to tear down all the safeguards he put in place to prevent others from doing exactly that.
https://joesaward.wordpress.com/2017/01 ... mpionship/

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dans79
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Re: F1 sold to Liberty Media. Bernie Out?

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bhall II wrote:This isn't about money; it's about power.
Pretty much what you would expect to be the driving force behind a man who is 5' 3" tall.
197 104 103 7

zeph
zeph
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Re: F1 sold to Liberty Media. Bernie Out?

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It would not be wise to take anything BE says at face value, but this just in from Autosport:
In a statement issued to Reuters he said: "I wish to clear up the rumours that I am starting a series to compete against the FIA Formula 1 World Championship.
I have built the championship over the last near-50 years, which is something I am proud of, and the last thing I want is to see it damaged."
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.ph ... -breakaway

Eddie_Temple
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Re: F1 sold to Liberty Media. Bernie Out?

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zeph wrote:It would not be wise to take anything BE says at face value, but this just in from Autosport:
In a statement issued to Reuters he said: "I wish to clear up the rumours that I am starting a series to compete against the FIA Formula 1 World Championship.
I have built the championship over the last near-50 years, which is something I am proud of, and the last thing I want is to see it damaged."
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.ph ... -breakaway
A Bernie denial is absolutely worthless, the man has built his entire empire on talking through both sides of his mouth.
Welcome to the layer cake, son.

bhall II
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Re: F1 sold to Liberty Media. Bernie Out?

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zeph wrote:I would never underestimate BE nor his hunger for power, but Joe Saward has an interesting argument: For him to succeed in creating a breakaway series, he'd need to tear down all the safeguards he put in place to prevent others from doing exactly that.
Despite what Saward says, Ecclestone's age isn't the limiting factor he wants it to be. You can actually consider it a "force multiplier" of sorts, because it means he has very little reason to hold back. Like they say, a boxer is never more dangerous than when he's against the ropes.

The idea that the "Ecclestone business model" might be a stumbling block with promoters naively forgets that Ecclestone developed that model for an environment in which he possessed a monopoly. That means he never had a reason to offer competitive terms, and victory was defined by what he could extract from the deal. In a competitive environment, victory is the deal itself, and it's no less significant. (This is why we have anti-trust laws.)

It's much the same story with regard to F1's untapped potential in terms of promotion and alternate revenue streams. The failure to explore those avenues is as much a failure of those around Ecclestone as it is of Ecclestone himself.

Think about it: two of the most prominent critiques of Ecclestone's stewardship of F1 would have us simultaneously believe that all he cares about is money and he won't take steps to make more money. It's a baffling inconsistency that begs the question: does it make more sense to believe that he rejected such opportunities or that no one made a compelling case on their behalf?

I recognize that this might read like a full-bodied defense of a demon, but it's not. I'm just trying to throw some logic at this thing.

Liberty didn't do itself any favors by leaving Bernie Ecclestone to his own devices. It was a critical misstep that doesn't bode well for the future, even if nothing comes of it, because it demonstrates a lack of strategic foresight. And as an American former cable company, Liberty was already fighting an uphill battle. (Not sure how well that last bit will translate across the pond and elsewhere. But, I'm pretty sure my fellow 'Muricans will understand exactly what I'm saying, since US cable companies aren't exactly noted for their vision. See: Comcast, aka the most hated company in America, aka the worst company in America.)

EDIT:
grandprix.com, Jan 27, 2017 wrote:Asked by Germany's Auto Motor und Sport if Ecclestone's departure and the arrival of the apparently friendlier Liberty could be taken advantage of by struggling promoters, Brawn said: "That could happen.

"But we must not ignore the fact that the promoters have difficulties financing themselves.

"You can see it two ways," Brawn added. "We could ask for less, but we could also help the promoters to earn higher revenues so they can afford the fees.

"Our view is that it is better to increase the income for the promoters than to reduce the cost of the races."
Translation: "We've got our heads shoved so far up each other's ass that we'll never recognize how relentless profiteering, and the widespread nationalist movements it has provoked, are arguably the chief social problems facing all of humanity at the moment. As such, we're gonna provide fortnightly "Super Bowls" that will ostensibly allow promoters to sell more tickets, even if what's really gonna happen is that they're gonna raise ticket prices. Hopefully, everyone will be distracted by shiny things and no one will notice that when a Super Bowl rolls into town, the price of everything around it skyrockets, especially airfare, hotel rooms, and rental cars. Lastly, we're so --- stupid that when this fails miserably, we'll really be surprised."

garychopper
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Re: F1 sold to Liberty Media. Bernie Out?

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A devil you know is better than the one you don't. :)
I for one, am going to miss Bernie, and call me old fashioned but I actually prefer Bernie's way of doing things than this new corporate smooth-talkers in town with their plans about creating transparency.
For me, Ferrari is not the biggest thing in formula 1, it is Ferrari AND Bernie. He is eternal, and maybe this will be his last battle......... and my money is on him 8)
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication- Leonardo da vinci

jz11
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Re: F1 sold to Liberty Media. Bernie Out?

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I think Ferrari has been overplaying their card of "being the heart of F1", because there is the flip side - Ferrari themselves are using this link to F1 to market their product, so if they decide to leave - how will they maintain the "sportiness" of their cars? Because a lot of the image right now is based on their racing heritage. So what would be their next step besides the Ferrari Challenge (which again can be tied to the brand of the series being the "face of F1", and without it would it be popular?), WEC? some other production car racing series?

IMHO Ferrari relies more on F1 than the F1 relies on Ferrari, if the partnership comes to an end, F1 will lose less, and Ferrari can become just another super car make, with history and arguably better design than the rest, but overall the same.