Track limits, rule enforcements, good sportsmanship etc

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zac510
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Re: Track limits, rule enforcements, good sportsmanship etc

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Strad is the FIA. He's looked at the fans, drivers and team's complaints about too many penalties leveraged onto drivers and decided that the best solution is to add even more penalties!

In no strata of human life does a penalty act as a 100% perfect deterrent. Murder, fraud, highway speeding etc - everyone is aware of the heavy penalties but people still carry out these acts.

Fortunately the stewarding part of F1 is not controlled entirely by one individual because the bias would be far worse than what we suffer now.

Just_a_fan
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Re: Track limits, rule enforcements, good sportsmanship etc

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At least the stewards are reasonably quick in their decisions, unlike the Olympics:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/38111912
8 years to change a race result...!
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turbof1
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Re: Track limits, rule enforcements, good sportsmanship etc

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Keep it clean, guys. This is a topic about sportmanship, so let's please be that against eachother.

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Eddie_Temple
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Re: Track limits, rule enforcements, good sportsmanship etc

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Gravel traps are pretty fair enforcers, never seen any bias from them.
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Moose
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Re: Track limits, rule enforcements, good sportsmanship etc

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Eddie_Temple wrote:Gravel traps are pretty fair enforcers, never seen any bias from them.
Gravel traps are biased to whoever's nearer the edge of the track. That means for example that someone pushing someone else wide will pretty much get away with it, because even if they're penalized, their opponent is stuck in a gravel trap.

zac510
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Re: Track limits, rule enforcements, good sportsmanship etc

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If you want more gravel traps then you'd have to accept perhaps one safety car per race to dig out a beached car. Nobody likes a safety car or VSC.
I don't have statistics to hand but by feeling is that since tarmac runoffs we've had many races without safety cars and that's more green flag racing for us spectators.

Eddie_Temple
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Re: Track limits, rule enforcements, good sportsmanship etc

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I'm the last one to want more yellow flags and more dangerous incidents.

Just from a bias perspective they seem the fairest at dealing with run off. As MOOSE pointed out - this means that in instances of dueling cars, the outside guy can be penalized.

Realistically, we need to take track rules into the 21st century. We have millimeter accurate sensors. Cars are becoming more and more electric, there has to be more than a few ways to derate a car through its electric system in a SAFE and FAIR way for all drivers on the track. This power loss would be proportionate to the violation and dispensed as soon as possible in a safe way. Perhaps on the next straight, acceleration would be derated for instance.

If we cannot come up with a system like that why even pretend this is the sport of the future?
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zac510
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Re: Track limits, rule enforcements, good sportsmanship etc

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There's definitely no silver bullet - it's a balance between safety, punishing a poor driver, keeping the track under green flags as long as possible and not punishing an innocent driver. The solutions in this thread tend to achieve one but fail in others.

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WaikeCU
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Re: Track limits, rule enforcements, good sportsmanship etc

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I think I possibly now understand why we mainly have asphalted runoffs these days. I just picked up Diniz' crash back in 1999 at the Nurburgring. He got flipped and his rollhoop dugged itself in the grass. The energy it created, broke the rollhoop causing a dangerous situation for the driver as the whole car was resting on the driver. I do wonder what will happen with the Halo when a cars goes off upside down and skids off the track. Would it create a dangerous situation?


graham.reeds
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Re: Track limits, rule enforcements, good sportsmanship etc

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Many moons ago I suggested a virtual gravel trap where if a car is all 4 wheels off the track then they will lose some power until they come back on.

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NathanOlder
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Re: Track limits, rule enforcements, good sportsmanship etc

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That way the FIA can control the speeds of the cars. Open for huge conspiracy theories. Maybe they already can ?? Interlagos 2007 & 2008. (Joking)
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J.A.W.
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Re: Track limits, rule enforcements, good sportsmanship etc

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So.. have the FIA Stewards read this thread..
& decided 'in their wisdom' to give 'Max DNF' - a bit of a 'heads-up' (5 sec worth) - prior to this year's Mexico G.P.?
"Well, we knocked the bastard off!"

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turbof1
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Re: Track limits, rule enforcements, good sportsmanship etc

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So let's use this topic regarding track limits, instead of the subjective Verstappen one. So discussion about the solutions put in place by the FIA at the Mexican GP, as well as the aftermath of the US GP can be done here in a neutral way.
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sosic2121
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Re: Track limits, rule enforcements, good sportsmanship etc

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I believe we need narrow gravel(or grass) traps, and tarmac behind them.

I have another idea. I think FIA should paint lines 2 meters from the end of the track and create "safe zones".
Then if there is contact between "left" and "right" car while left car is in left safe zone, it's an instant penalty for the right car.
I think this would solve lots of problems and increase amount of racing.

Edax
Edax
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Joined: 08 Apr 2014, 22:47

Re: Track limits, rule enforcements, good sportsmanship etc

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Eddie_Temple wrote:
06 Dec 2016, 04:54
I'm the last one to want more yellow flags and more dangerous incidents.

Just from a bias perspective they seem the fairest at dealing with run off. As MOOSE pointed out - this means that in instances of dueling cars, the outside guy can be penalized.

Realistically, we need to take track rules into the 21st century. We have millimeter accurate sensors. Cars are becoming more and more electric, there has to be more than a few ways to derate a car through its electric system in a SAFE and FAIR way for all drivers on the track. This power loss would be proportionate to the violation and dispensed as soon as possible in a safe way. Perhaps on the next straight, acceleration would be derated for instance.

If we cannot come up with a system like that why even pretend this is the sport of the future?
I am starting to lean to the argument that these huge runoff areas are too much of a defensive advantage. It is too easy to muscle your opponent outside the track and claim unfair advantage. This system would not take away that advantage, it rather enforces that behavior. Because you know that anyone would choose an engine derate over damage you just run them wide.

If you know that the other has a good chance of wrecking his car by going outside the track you know that he is not going to jump the curb, so you give him space.

I am not a big fan of sausage curbs, flying cars and back injuries is indeed not what we want. But those little poles they used in bahrain pose no risk for the driver. But they will damage your front wing, plus they look solid enough not to want to mess with then. I think that might do the trick.

The only thing you have to avoid is that the pole needs to be reerected after every contact. But I guess that can be overcome with a suitable flexible base.