Tyre war, yes or no??

[Manoah2u]

Is it me alone who prefers these wheels to the bigger rims proposed?

i like the wheels as they are, but there are definately some benefits from bigger wheels.

A) tire 'science' benefitting from the new 'direction' which can be translated back to road tires
B) wheel manufacturers have an opportunity to create super strong , super light wheels
C) brake manufacturers have a new window to operate in
D) due to the narrower tire 'wall', there will be less 'spring' effect in the tire, and thus the suspension gets developed in 'new' areas
E) that includes the springs/coils etc.
F) car handling will change and thus drivers will have to adapt and it might even get 'harder' to drive
G) other areas not mentioned above.

for example, i would be very interested to see a (mandated) implemention of run-flat technology in F1, so that when a tire
has a blowout or goes haywire, then there will still be track on the floor, and perhaps a benefit could be that the floor won't get damaged from a damaged tyre as it does now.

and again, i think it would be beneficial for the show AND the 'world' to see various manufacturers participate;
have tire manufacturers compete to bring innovative technology to the track which we then get to see implemented
in the automotive industry, and not only in bugattis or mclaren p1's.

[zac510]

It's easy to fantasise about whether a tyre war will be exciting on track or not, but I think we really have to consider the overall health of the F1 economy when deciding to introduce a tyre war, otherwise you risk doing more damage to Formula 1 by inciting a spending war which could force a couple of teams into bankruptcy. F1 really is often a fragile economy so bringing in a tyre war would be like increasing interest rates in the middle of a recession. Having a sole supplier brings some stability to F1's economy, IMO.

If eliminating competition is the right answer, why should Formula One only standardize tires (and electronics)?

I didn't say eliminating competition. We just to make it reasonable for small teams to compete with big teams while keeping open and technically interesting cars. In an economy like F1 at the moment, I see it a bit more of a choice like would you prefer a tyre war, or 1-2 more teams? If Liberty improves the F1 economy and makes it easier for smaller teams to survive, then perhaps then F1 can sustain a full grid and a tyre war.

[zac510]

Each car must use tires from 2 different manufacturers during the race.

Why not?

This has only the same advantage as the current rule of having to use two compounds and only numerous disadvantages in two tyre companies shipping tyres around, needing different geometries, different tyre pressures/temperatures, complex fan understanding, inability for teams to strike exclusive commercial deals, etc.

[Pingguest]

It's easy to fantasise about whether a tyre war will be exciting on track or not, but I think we really have to consider the overall health of the F1 economy when deciding to introduce a tyre war, otherwise you risk doing more damage to Formula 1 by inciting a spending war which could force a couple of teams into bankruptcy. F1 really is often a fragile economy so bringing in a tyre war would be like increasing interest rates in the middle of a recession. Having a sole supplier brings some stability to F1's economy, IMO.

If eliminating competition is the right answer, why should Formula One only standardize tires (and electronics)?

I didn't say eliminating competition. We just to make it reasonable for small teams to compete with big teams while keeping open and technically interesting cars. In an economy like F1 at the moment, I see it a bit more of a choice like would you prefer a tyre war, or 1-2 more teams? If Liberty improves the F1 economy and makes it easier for smaller teams to survive, then perhaps then F1 can sustain a full grid and a tyre war.

During the tire war, teams were supplied tires for free. Nowadays, however, teams will have to pay for them.

[zac510]

Well the big teams got the tyres for free. but if it's a tyre war then there will need to be lots of testing to develop the tyres and the teams will have to pay for that.
Overall I'd like to see a tyre war, but I think it's silly to have a tyre war when F1 can barely sustain a 22 car grid.

[Pingguest]

Well the big teams got the tyres for free. but if it's a tyre war then there will need to be lots of testing to develop the tyres and the teams will have to pay for that.
Overall I'd like to see a tyre war, but I think it's silly to have a tyre war when F1 can barely sustain a 22 car grid.

The same could be said about lots of other parts. However, testing is severely limited by regulation.

[zac510]

I assumed the testing regulations would have to be opened up because a tyre war without on-track testing would be pretty pointless! Otherwise there's a chance we'd just end up with a few teams with a locked-in tyre advantage (a'la 2014 Mercedes engine) and competition would go backwards.

[Pingguest]

I assumed the testing regulations would have to be opened up because a tyre war without on-track testing would be pretty pointless! Otherwise there's a chance we'd just end up with a few teams with a locked-in tyre advantage (a'la 2014 Mercedes engine) and competition would go backwards.

Mercedes-Benz gained a locked-in advantage, because of the regulations severely limiting the number of modifications being allowed. With testing being serverly limited as well, one could develop, as long as modifications are permitted.

[FrukostScones]

when I was younger dind't put much interest into the tyres...

all heard was about alleged cheating and spending war, custom MSC tyres , watched Indy 2005... etc.
also I think it was spreading the field, with midfield teams and backmarkers more disadvanteged.

No one needs this.

Current era Pirelli tyres are sh*t . (hoepfully better in 2017)

but still

a big NO.

[Manoah2u]

Indy 2005 was a debacle, but that was not neccesarily down to the tire manufacturer to be honest, rather on how the FIA handled things and didnt make a single-race rule exception. To be honest, i think Pirelli's exploding tire debacle was far far worse.

In any case, that 'custom MSC tyre' story, even if it's true, there was a certain benetton with a certain traction control on it too, funny enough it was MSC too. So that would seem the problem lies more with the person that is MSC than actually any other party. After all , regarding that cheating, it takes 2 to tango. Michelin didnt just suddenly bring some tires and MSC didn't know about it, likewise the traction control on the benetton.

And additionaly, there's only the story out about 'custom' MSC tires, but if there were custom MSC tires, who's to say there never was a special Hakkinen tire? Alonso tire? Hill tire? Senna tire even?

Theres a longer history of F1 than 2005, RedBull, and Vettel. And it includes various tire manufacturers, at the same season, and nobody complained that there should be just 1 tire manufacturer.

If you ask me for real, then when there's critisism on tires being an advantage over one team and negative towards the other, its nothing but soft 'female cat' whining of sore losers (teams) that can't have that their competition did better. It's really as simple as that. Mercedes struggeled with tires before, and other teams had no problem. now they have got it under control, and other teams have problems - like ferrari.

Haas had problems with te brakes a while ago, is it now all of a sudden unfair that the top teams have magnificient brakes and the backmarkers have to do with 'budget' models? let's give them their way, have a cup of tea, mandate all teams must have the same brake supplier and bernie (now no longer around, i know) arranges brembo is gonna be the one and slam an unreasonable pricetag on them and then demand for the show that they wear out fast and during pitstops they need to be changed too. result: really little change for the big teams, as they had them and the funds for it anyway, and now the moaning little teams can't pay them anymore because they are more expensive than the budget brakes they had before and now they go bankrupt or become bernie-slaves as they raise their hand for some money.

you see the problem here?

give the teams back the freedom, give F1 back its freedom.

if you want spec racing, go and watch GP2 or formula renault. don't push F1 more in that direction.

[roon]

It's easy to fantasise about whether a tyre war will be exciting on track or not, but I think we really have to consider the overall health of the F1 economy when deciding to introduce a tyre war, otherwise you risk doing more damage to Formula 1 by inciting a spending war which could force a couple of teams into bankruptcy. F1 really is often a fragile economy so bringing in a tyre war would be like increasing interest rates in the middle of a recession. Having a sole supplier brings some stability to F1's economy, IMO.

Too big to fail? Let them bankrupt themselves. They'll move on to new ventures, or different series, or start different series.

[zac510]

Sure let them fail, as long as it's cheap and easy to start a new team up. At the moment it's not cheap.
No taker for Manor's assets this year. If Sauber failed would anyone buy them? If not then F1 is down to 10 teams and F1 looks stupid with a grid that small. I totally understand the desire for technical freedom and a capitalist like economy because I used to have that desire myself, but I believe now there isn't the scale to allow it to operate like that.

[DiogoBrand]

The real question here is: Do you want a tyre war or a chassis war?
We all know that Bridgestone probably won more championships than Ferrari between 2000 and 2004. I personally would much prefer to see standard tyres and leave the competition to the cars and engines.

And if we see too many one stoppers, it's as simple as choosing softer tyres for each weekend. For example: choose supersofts, softs and mediums where previously they used softs, mediums and hards.
If everyone just ends up using ultrasofts and forgetting about hard tyres, just tweak the compounds for next season.

[Pingguest]

The real question here is: Do you want a tyre war or a chassis war?

Let me rephrase it: do you want a chassis war or a power unit war?

[Manoah2u]

by the way this is going, i think people are only going to be satisfied if all f1 drivers just ditch their cars and run 50 laps on the track with an image of an f1 car on their overalls and then who comes in first wins (duh).