Silly Season 2017/2018

[Phil]

I think Renault might take him back. But for how long? Much might depend on Kubica.

Think about it: if Kubica proves to be capable, it would be like making a childs dream come true. Back in F1. He'd show dedication, unquestionable work ethic, loyalty. Even if the car might not win GPs.

Would it be the same with Alonso? He had used Renault as a "scape goat" before. A means to bridge a gap. It benefitted both at the time, Alonso is ageing. He has the skill no doubt, but can anyone see him invest another 3 years into a team that is in build up? With a smile, patience and dedication? Is this what he has shown at Ferrari, the dream team of any driver? At McLaren?

If Renault doesnt perform, Alonso will be off at any opportunity, that is how much i would trust him IMO. Not that good on your CV.

Would you employ him?

[skoop]

I think Renault might take him back. But for how long? Much might depend on Kubica.

Think about it: if Kubica proves to be capable, it would be like making a childs dream come true. Back in F1. He'd show dedication, unquestionable work ethic, loyalty. Even if the car might not win GPs.

Would it be the same with Alonso? He had used Renault as a "scape goat" before. A means to bridge a gap. It benefitted both at the time, Alonso is ageing. He has the skill no doubt, but can anyone see him invest another 3 years into a team that is in build up? With a smile, patience and dedication? Is this what he has shown at Ferrari, the dream team of any driver? At McLaren?

If Renault doesnt perform, Alonso will be off at any opportunity, that is how much i would trust him IMO. Not that good on your CV.

Would you employ him?

Even though I really like Alonso and Kubica I think I wouldn't hire any of them.
Renault needs a fresh new talent. Someone who they can nurture and who grows with the team. That is why Sainz (in my opinion) would be perfect for them (even though I think he kind of lost his mojo this season).
Don't get an old driver who retires in a couple of years. For experience they got Hulk (and his speed obviously).

[alexx_88]

Would it be the same with Alonso? He had used Renault as a "scape goat" before. A means to bridge a gap. It benefitted both at the time, Alonso is ageing. He has the skill no doubt, but can anyone see him invest another 3 years into a team that is in build up? With a smile, patience and dedication? Is this what he has shown at Ferrari, the dream team of any driver? At McLaren?

If Renault doesnt perform, Alonso will be off at any opportunity, that is how much i would trust him IMO. Not that good on your CV.

Would you employ him?

I would, definitely. He's no different than any top driver. Imagine Vettel's reaction after being promised a car that would allow him to fight for wins and championship within 2-3 years and ending up in one that can barely make it into Q3 from time to time. I think he'd be frustrated as hell, he'd shout and he'd complain. A lot. Same as Hamilton. They wouldn't be top drivers if they wouldn't have that hunger in them and just drive for the paycheck.

Alonso has a couple more years of being able to take a good car to win the championship. So he either needs to get himself into one of the current top teams or into a team that's on the verge of getting to the top. First ones are easy, Ferrari or Mercedes, although it will be very interesting to see if the Italians can produce a good car even without James Allison there. I think they might struggle in 2018, from the chassis perspective. As for teams that are on the verge of being very good, Renault is certainly a good prospect. However, judging by how long Mclaren took to produce a good chassis, after employing some top people (PP, Matt Morris etc), I'd say that's a bit outside of Alonso's timeframe. Depending on what the engine regs turn out to be, we might see the outsiders of the current regs switch focus completely on those, rather than trying to catch up under this current formula.

In hindsight, I really can't understand what made Alonso switch from Ferrari to Mclaren. From the outside, at that time, it made sense, but surely he asked to see the PUs running on the dyno, their performance figures etc.

[Phil]

I would, definitely. He's no different than any top driver. Imagine Vettel's reaction after being promised a car that would allow him to fight for wins and championship within 2-3 years and ending up in one that can barely make it into Q3 from time to time. I think he'd be frustrated as hell, he'd shout and he'd complain.

I think you underestimate Alonso. He was at Ferrari for 5 seasons. He knows too well about the prospect of winning and... not winning. Too well.

He already was in arguably the best team with one of the highest budgets, the one deemed most important to the sport - Ferrari. It wasnt like he didnt come close either. Yet, he decided to go to a team that failed miserably with the best PU on the grid (2014, McLaren powered by Mercedes) and let himself to be lured by the prospect of that same team that was in free fall since 2013 of winning championships?

There were other reasons why he left - and much of that has to do with his persona that was in collision course with Ferraris new management.

Most teams are in F1 for the sake of image. They are not privateer teams, but large corporations that feed on success that allows them to sell in their prime markets.

Renault is no exception. Renault needs a long term plan, continuiety. Hiring Alonso, just to have another driver bitch about the car wouldnt do them well. Its a team sport. They need a driver who is willing to work with the team, be patient and work hard to get there. Renault is far from winning, so its yet another longterm project. Is that what Alonso wants? Does he still have the patience? The persona to guide such a team to success? If anything, i'd argue he does not and is showing that quite clearly at McLaren and towards the end if his career at Ferrati.

This is about a man, so gifted and fast that the only thing he seems to care about is winning. And i am not sure that is sonething that would do well in a team like Renault.

Hulkenberg is perfect so far. Palmer is not. IMO kubica would fit that bill nicely too. Humble, hungry and he will be patient. Sorry, but for all the qualities he has a driver, Alonso has some obvious glaring faults too that IMO make him quite difficult to employ and want. Why do you think he went to McLaren at the time? He ousted himself at Ferrari at a time no one else wanted him or had room. Its that simple.

[Manoah2u]

So.

Sainz has not made good friends at RedBull and Toro Rosso with his criticism of Marko and Matechitz, rather a very very stupid move of him having in mind that other Spaniard that got sacked for being a bigmouth mr dj Jaime Alguersuari. Jaime's still butthurt and thinks F1 is no longer a sport with him out of it, but the example of opening your mouth to people like Marko and Matechitz were bad ideas.

Unless that is his plan all along, but he is now guaranteed to never end up at RB, imagine IF Max or DannyRic ends up at Ferrari or Mercedes next year, that'll be very sour for him.

Marko and Renault are now constemplating a transfer to replace complete waste of space Palmer and move Sainz to Renault as of Hungary. A 8 million transfer money is paired to that, question is, would Renault be even remotely interested in doing so ? Why would they hire openly critical Sainz that has made no friends in his team, notoriously had a bad friendship with the Verstappen camp, be interesting for renault? Whilst all signs show that Kubica WILL be there next year, perhaps even earlier?

I think Sainz could have dug his own grave in this, i think he is a very potent driver but somehow things went sour the past months and now he has nowhere left to go.

Gasly will be in his spot in Hungary. so where will he go?

[adrianjordan]

Given Alonso's former teams' usual performance after he leaves and his knack for leaving at just the wrong time....I kind of hope he switches teams again...as that will mean Honda finally get their PU sorted and Mclaren can get back to winning ways...

Though really I'd like to see Alonso win another title with Mclaren.

[iotar__]

Given Alonso's former teams' usual performance after he leaves and his knack for leaving at just the wrong time....I kind of hope he switches teams again...as that will mean Honda finally get their PU sorted and Mclaren can get back to winning ways...

Though really I'd like to see Alonso win another title with Mclaren.

Let's analyse this statement:
- Minardi - Renault - better car
- Renault to McL - better car, joint best car
- McL to Renault - worse car but not a choice
- Renault to Ferrari - better car
- Ferrari to McL - worse car

Knack consisting of one item. Not bad, ~Sky Sports level of disinformation, usually it's worse here, like zero i.e. "Alonso will leave F1 mid season in '17"

[Phil]

So.

Sainz has not made good friends at RedBull and Toro Rosso with his criticism of Marko and Matechitz, rather a very very stupid move of him having in mind that other Spaniard that got sacked for being a bigmouth mr dj Jaime Alguersuari. Jaime's still butthurt and thinks F1 is no longer a sport with him out of it, but the example of opening your mouth to people like Marko and Matechitz were bad ideas.

Unless that is his plan all along, but he is now guaranteed to never end up at RB, imagine IF Max or DannyRic ends up at Ferrari or Mercedes next year, that'll be very sour for him.

Marko and Renault are now constemplating a transfer to replace complete waste of space Palmer and move Sainz to Renault as of Hungary. A 8 million transfer money is paired to that, question is, would Renault be even remotely interested in doing so ? Why would they hire openly critical Sainz that has made no friends in his team, notoriously had a bad friendship with the Verstappen camp, be interesting for renault? Whilst all signs show that Kubica WILL be there next year, perhaps even earlier?

I think Sainz could have dug his own grave in this, i think he is a very potent driver but somehow things went sour the past months and now he has nowhere left to go.

Gasly will be in his spot in Hungary. so where will he go?

Spot on, i think. I personally think Renault will ride it out with Palmer, but for 2018 the focus will be on Kubica, if not already for this season after the summer. How better than to assess Kubica if not to put him into a race seat on a half season probation?

Sainz, unfortunately, will be less appealing. Unless Kubica for some reason cant and something messes up his comback. Its a pitty - Sainz is a solid impressive performer, but the sport has some issues. At the top end, you still have Hamilton and Vettel and they are not going anywhere. At the lower end, you have pay drivers being a necessity. In between, TR is one of the more solid teams to be already.

I think Sainz might have a good chance replacing Alonso. If Alonso is off amd away from McLaren that is...

[adrianjordan]

Given Alonso's former teams' usual performance after he leaves and his knack for leaving at just the wrong time....I kind of hope he switches teams again...as that will mean Honda finally get their PU sorted and Mclaren can get back to winning ways...

Though really I'd like to see Alonso win another title with Mclaren.

Let's analyse this statement:
- Minardi - Renault - better car
- Renault to McL - better car, joint best car
- McL to Renault - worse car but not a choice
- Renault to Ferrari - better car
- Ferrari to McL - worse car

Knack consisting of one item. Not bad, ~Sky Sports level of disinformation, usually it's worse here, like zero i.e. "Alonso will leave F1 mid season in '17"

Except after he left Renault they won races with, arguably, slower drivers.

[ESPImperium]

After the Sainz to Renault rumours today, i think it will be Palmers last race barring some crazy podium occurrence with Rain in the race.

Sainz was rumored to be touted to Ferrari for €35m, to take that figure, i think the €7m upfront cost and then either next to free engines for next year and a reduction the year after, Marko will have negotiated some sort of brilliant deal for STR and/or Red Bull. If he has managed to snag a deal, let Sainz go and put Gasly in the seat, i think it will be a brilliant coup de gras for all sides. Renault will have a capable driver and a compatible one to Hulkenberg, Red Bull/STR will have managed to get shot of a driver who is a bit salty at the moment to give a young hungry one a chance. Renault will be able to get more WDC points and progress.

However, this deal will quash the Kubica rumours dead, and this will make Renault happy i think. It will also make Ferrari think about who their Raikkonen Replacement will be and Alonso will have more options narrowed out. My gut is telling me this:

Mercedes AMG : 44] HAM / 77] BOT (BOT on another year deal)
Scuderia Ferrari: 5] VET / 11] PER (Ferrari will sign Perez on a 3 or 4 year deal as a capable #2 driver)
Red Bull-TAG Heuger: 3] Riccardo / 33] Verstappen
Force1-Mercedes: 31] Ocon / 94] Wehrlein (All about those sweet free Mercedes parts)
Williams-Mercedes: 19] Massa / 18] Stroll (Williams need a driver 25 years or older, and there aren't too many of them around and Massa still has enough pace)
Toro Rosso-Renault: 26] Kvijat / XX] Gasly
Haas-Ferrari: 8] Grosjean / 20] Magnussen
Renault Sport F1: 27] Hulkenberg / 55] Sainz
Sauber-Ferrari: 9]Ericsson / XX] Leclerc (Honda will pull out of F1 i think, and Ferrari will welcome back Sauber for a Ferrari Development Program seat)
McLaren-Renault: 14] Alonso / 2] Vandorne (Mercedes and Ferrari will want to keep their 4th supply free for two new tail end teams, Alonso will take a pay cut and stay in F1 for one more year at least to see how a McLaren with a good engine performs)

The McLaren-Renault deal will also have some sort of Technology synergy where Renault are helped out on their ERS side by McLaren Applied Technologies, onto this Red Bull won't want to be left out, red Bull Technologies will also get in on the action and Renault will have help from MAT and RBT to push their power unit towards the front and make Ferrari and Mercedes, and having 3 Renault powered teams pushing towards Mercedes and Ferrari will make the front contested, and the only way for them to counter will to push Haas, Sauber, Williams and Force1 towards the sharp end as well by giving them more performance somewhere. This will tighten up the pack for 2018 and 2019. Better racing and a better product for Liberty.

[Schuttelberg]

To be very honest, it's very dumb to burn bridges with any team ever. Sainz has not played it smart with RBR.

Let's look at some things practically-

1) Mercedes, Ferrari and Red Bull are the only teams capable of winning races right now. Of these three teams, five spots are taken and one is in doubt but my guess is Sainz is not the front runner for it i.e the Ferrari seat. I still feel Ferrari will renew Raikkonen for 2018.

2) Renault, while progressing don't come across as championship contenders or even race winners to me in 2018. For 2019, you never know what might happen! I think Verstappen is getting increasingly frustrated and you just never know.

3) While Sainz is one of the best talents on the grid, there are a few other drivers in the fray for these seats and it wouldn't have hurt one bit to keep RBR very happy.

[NL_Fer]

Again Hulkeburg is putting this car in the Q3, speed is there. With a better engine, aero development, reliability and a better 2nd driver they can show some performance. Remember during the Lotus period, this care almost fastest on the grid.

[Jolle]

Theory: Verstappen is trying to emulate Senna’s career to the letter.

One year at an ambitious midfielder (STR/Toleman)
Three years at a front runner of yesterday (RedBull/Lotus)
And then an epic clash with the most dominant team of the decade with the master of those years (Mercedes/McLaren)

Bring on 2019!

[TwanV]

Well SAI to Ferrari would be a downgrade for the scuderia. Now with kvyat is the second time over he is on non speaking terms with his team mate and generally he seems to push STR down instead of up. But I see him driving for Renault.. Would rather see Buemi, but against Hulkenberg we'll see what he's really made of.
Sorry I'm not a fan of SAI and his "point to the other guy(s)"-attitude, but he deserves his place based on his performance. Will be a make our break season though imo

[ScottB]

Do Red Bull have anyone besides Gasly ready? I can't imagine keeping Kyvat is something they'd want to do, but if Sainz is out, they'd need two new guys.

Could be problems ahead for RBR, with Ricciardo and Verstappen likely to be highly prised by other teams, they need to be ready to replace at least one of them, if the Sainz relationship has gone south, and they want to keep their internal hiring policy going, they need to start getting new guys into STR asap...