HALO Approved for 2018

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
User avatar
Phil
408
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 3:22 pm

Re: HALO Approved for 2018

Post

Did anyone ever do a design of two metal bars going along the side instead of a "halo ring"? Or is that deemed to be worse for the sight of the drivers rather than having a center bar go up to the "ring"?
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
#Team44 supporter

Jolle
Jolle
169
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:58 pm
Location: Dordrecht

Re: HALO Approved for 2018

Post

Phil wrote:
Fri Jul 21, 2017 10:26 am
Did anyone ever do a design of two metal bars going along the side instead of a "halo ring"? Or is that deemed to be worse for the sight of the drivers rather than having a center bar go up to the "ring"?
The center pillar doesn't interfere with view, this is because of having two eyes (you can test this yourself quite easy). pillars at the edge would block some view, because one eye is more then once blocked by your nose.

Also, strangely enough for some, drivers rarely look straight ahead, clear view of the apex is much more important (they did an eye track thing with Hulk a while back)

Jester Maroc
Jester Maroc
12
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 9:18 am
Location: Lusaka, Zambia

Re: HALO Approved for 2018

Post

F1 drivers are becoming more and more detached from both the mechanical aspect of racing and the risk of racing. I guess it won't be long before we have AI driving the cars in order to save lives.
Man's mind, once stretched by a new idea, never regains its original dimensions. ~ Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.

User avatar
Daliracing
21
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:19 pm

Re: HALO Approved for 2018

Post

This would maybe be better. Its a blend of a halo with an aeroscreen:
Image

I think the view will be better then the shield tested because of the angle of the screen. Because the top part it will be stronger then a shield and there are no holes in it so i think it will protect better.

EDIT: Maybe they can remove the centerpillar to but then its basicly an aeroscreen

User avatar
Phil
408
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 3:22 pm

Re: HALO Approved for 2018

Post

Jolle wrote:
Fri Jul 21, 2017 10:52 am
Phil wrote:
Fri Jul 21, 2017 10:26 am
Did anyone ever do a design of two metal bars going along the side instead of a "halo ring"? Or is that deemed to be worse for the sight of the drivers rather than having a center bar go up to the "ring"?
The center pillar doesn't interfere with view, this is because of having two eyes (you can test this yourself quite easy). pillars at the edge would block some view, because one eye is more then once blocked by your nose.
While it doesnt block the view, i do think it interferes in the sense that its irritating. But you are correct that what i suggested would probably block the view to the apex.

Unfortunately, with the goals set by the FIA, it is impossible to come up with a solution that is both aestetically pleasing and meets the requirements at the same time...
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
#Team44 supporter

User avatar
FW17
227
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:56 am

Re: HALO Approved for 2018

Post

The side pillars would not block the view of the apex, it is in the same region of the mirrors

Image

Jolle
Jolle
169
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:58 pm
Location: Dordrecht

Re: HALO Approved for 2018

Post

FW17 wrote:
Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:59 am
The side pillars would not block the view of the apex, it is in the same region of the mirrors

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/8w4do9L1G-Q/maxresdefault.jpg
For protection the pillars should be on the front bulkhead, at least in front of the drivers hands. The line of sight to the apex (over the front wheel) goes through this space.

https://youtu.be/zjkUUMZnTnU

User avatar
Phil
408
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 3:22 pm

Re: HALO Approved for 2018

Post

@FW17

Sorry, it was about my idea of having two side pillars (only two side pillars) instead of a HALO ring for anesthetic reasons only. If you were going to do side-pillars only (without a HALO ring), the side pillars would have to be mounted further in front, which then would block the view to the apex probably slightly.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
#Team44 supporter

User avatar
FW17
227
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:56 am

Re: HALO Approved for 2018

Post

Jolle wrote:
Fri Jul 21, 2017 12:34 pm

For protection the pillars should be on the front bulkhead, at least in front of the drivers hands. The line of sight to the apex (over the front wheel) goes through this space.

https://youtu.be/zjkUUMZnTnU
the bulk head can be placed where needed

line of sight can be adjusted, driver would use other ways to pick the apex of the corner. Up till 95 drivers would lean out of the low sides of the cockpit to pick the apex, nobody was complaining in 96 when they could not do that anymore.

Center pillar is bad, it is always going to be creating focus issues specially at the gusset

Phil wrote:
Fri Jul 21, 2017 1:14 pm
@FW17

Sorry, it was about my idea of having two side pillars (only two side pillars) instead of a HALO ring for anesthetic reasons only. If you were going to do side-pillars only (without a HALO ring), the side pillars would have to be mounted further in front, which then would block the view to the apex probably slightly.
2 vertical elements by the side would provide a very limited chance of interception as against the horizontal element.

In the Halo the arch form is the one providing the main strength while the center pillar is just preventing the Halo from lifting or collapsing in reaction

User avatar
Phil
408
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 3:22 pm

Re: HALO Approved for 2018

Post

True, but it would provide sufficient strength towards larger objects, like tires, or perhaps a scenario where a car flips and lands upside down in another car.

Honestly, i dont get the whole point anyway. There will always be danger. Assume a flying tire hitting a Halo and going airborn into the crowd. There are countless of possibilities. If you want a safe sport - put them into boxes controlling remote controlled cars. Its just paradox and idiotic.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
#Team44 supporter

Moose
Moose
126
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2014 6:41 pm

Re: HALO Approved for 2018

Post

Here's a comparison of the current design to a two pillar design:
Image
Image

I think it's fair to say that the two pillar design blocks far more of the field of view, and far more of the important points for the driver.

Further to that, this design leaves an unsupported section of the halo in exactly the area most likely to be hit by debris.

I don't see how a two pillar design would be expected to work reasonably. The one pillar one seems much more reasonable to me.

User avatar
FW17
227
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:56 am

Re: HALO Approved for 2018

Post

Why place the supports there? Put the where red bull put them.

Moose
Moose
126
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2014 6:41 pm

Re: HALO Approved for 2018

Post

FW17 wrote:
Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:25 pm
Why place the supports there? Put the where red bull put them.
Because RedBull's design was supported by the screen, and protruded less to the front than the actual halo.

If you don't put them far enough forward there's literally nothing supporting the front hoop of the halo that's actually protecting the driver's head.

User avatar
FW17
227
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:56 am

Re: HALO Approved for 2018

Post

Moose wrote:
Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:45 pm
FW17 wrote:
Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:25 pm
Why place the supports there? Put the where red bull put them.
Because RedBull's design was supported by the screen, and protruded less to the front than the actual halo.

If you don't put them far enough forward there's literally nothing supporting the front hoop of the halo that's actually protecting the driver's head.

What kind of support do you think that halo needs?

Moose
Moose
126
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2014 6:41 pm

Re: HALO Approved for 2018

Post

I think it needs a support to prevent it from buckling under the impact of a large heavy object at high speed. I'd think anyone with even the most basic understanding of engineering would understand why something standing on 3 legs is stronger and more stable than something standing on 2.