HALO Approved for 2018

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
704
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: HALO Approved for 2018

Post

subcritical71 wrote:
Sun Nov 29, 2020 6:09 pm
bucker wrote:
Sun Nov 29, 2020 4:19 pm
https://www.racefans.net/wp-content/upl ... _HiRes.jpg

Would Grosjean escape from this today? I think not. Thanks for Halo
If the windscreen stayed intact during the impact
That's the big question, isn't it? Is a big lump of titanium better at deflecting steel than a piece of poly(methyl methacrylate)? I think I'd rather take my chances with the titanium.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

User avatar
subcritical71
97
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:04 pm
Location: USA-Florida

Re: HALO Approved for 2018

Post

Just_a_fan wrote:
Sun Nov 29, 2020 6:37 pm
subcritical71 wrote:
Sun Nov 29, 2020 6:09 pm
bucker wrote:
Sun Nov 29, 2020 4:19 pm
https://www.racefans.net/wp-content/upl ... _HiRes.jpg

Would Grosjean escape from this today? I think not. Thanks for Halo
If the windscreen stayed intact during the impact
That's the big question, isn't it? Is a big lump of titanium better at deflecting steel than a piece of poly(methyl methacrylate)? I think I'd rather take my chances with the titanium.
If I’m not mistaken, the final aero screen, or more specifically the support structure behind the poly screen, is to the same FIA spec as the halo.

User avatar
subcritical71
97
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:04 pm
Location: USA-Florida

Re: HALO Approved for 2018

Post

subcritical71 wrote:
Sun Nov 29, 2020 8:55 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Sun Nov 29, 2020 6:37 pm
subcritical71 wrote:
Sun Nov 29, 2020 6:09 pm

If the windscreen stayed intact during the impact
That's the big question, isn't it? Is a big lump of titanium better at deflecting steel than a piece of poly(methyl methacrylate)? I think I'd rather take my chances with the titanium.
If I’m not mistaken, the final aero screen, or more specifically the support structure behind the poly screen, is to the same FIA spec as the halo. So the differentiator in this case may well be the protection the poly screen affords after the crash (if it stays intact). This could allow rescue workers time to respond to an unconscious driver which from the sudden stop GRO experienced I'm surprised wasn't the case here. It could also be a detriment if the driver cannot escape through the top.

User avatar
El Scorchio
42
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:41 am

Re: HALO Approved for 2018

Post

The halo 100% proved its worth today and saved a man’s life. I was critical at the time but I now think it’s a wonderful invention. Without it we are talking about the sad loss of a driver.

User avatar
Scorpaguy
19
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2010 4:05 am

Re: HALO Approved for 2018

Post

I posted this in the race thread...but should have done so here:

"I hope the FIA is keeping a close tab on these incidents and analyzing the "what-ifs"...and not simply drinking their pro or con HALO Kool-Aid. Gros was saved by his HALO today...Jules would likely be alive. However, had Stroll's car caught fire today...or Hulk's a bit back, I believe outcomes would have been different...as both were in their cars a good bit more than 20 seconds (albeit Lance was not as incentivized as was Gros...Hulk did fear he was on fire and could not get out).

FIA needs to constantly be evaluating these incidents and analyzing different scenarios to perfect these driver protections. Today, I am grateful Gros is still with us and thank God we had the HALO."

astracrazy
astracrazy
56
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:04 pm

Re: HALO Approved for 2018

Post

It saved his life today 100%. It has already saved potential major injury too in Spa 2018 when Alonso's car hit the halo and not Leclerc's head.

Nico's crash - he even admitted himself he wasn't sure if the Halo was even in his way (https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/ ... prix-crash) and the car did catch fire with that one. All be in no where near today.

Stroll crash today - non issue, he was able to escape easily. Easiest of the three.

Grosjean by far had the hardest escape of all three in the worst circumstances and was able to do so.

Could it be made easier? I have always been surprised they haven't looked into the sides being able to release if needed.

Personally though I think the focus of investigation from todays will be the barriers. That should not happen in 2020.

Jolle
Jolle
222
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:58 pm
Location: Dordrecht

Re: HALO Approved for 2018

Post

astracrazy wrote:
Sun Nov 29, 2020 10:48 pm
It saved his life today 100%. It has already saved potential major injury too in Spa 2018 when Alonso's car hit the halo and not Leclerc's head.

Nico's crash - he even admitted himself he wasn't sure if the Halo was even in his way (https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/ ... prix-crash) and the car did catch fire with that one. All be in no where near today.

Stroll crash today - non issue, he was able to escape easily. Easiest of the three.

Grosjean by far had the hardest escape of all three in the worst circumstances and was able to do so.

Could it be made easier? I have always been surprised they haven't looked into the sides being able to release if needed.

Personally though I think the focus of investigation from todays will be the barriers. That should not happen in 2020.
In the medical car are cutters to cut the halo in seconds when needed. Any pivot or panel etc that can be removed is also a weak point.
Worst case, fire and an unconscious and trapped driver -> put out flames, then stabilise driver in the cockpit -> cut him out.

astracrazy
astracrazy
56
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:04 pm

Re: HALO Approved for 2018

Post

Jolle wrote:
Sun Nov 29, 2020 11:09 pm
astracrazy wrote:
Sun Nov 29, 2020 10:48 pm
It saved his life today 100%. It has already saved potential major injury too in Spa 2018 when Alonso's car hit the halo and not Leclerc's head.

Nico's crash - he even admitted himself he wasn't sure if the Halo was even in his way (https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/ ... prix-crash) and the car did catch fire with that one. All be in no where near today.

Stroll crash today - non issue, he was able to escape easily. Easiest of the three.

Grosjean by far had the hardest escape of all three in the worst circumstances and was able to do so.

Could it be made easier? I have always been surprised they haven't looked into the sides being able to release if needed.

Personally though I think the focus of investigation from todays will be the barriers. That should not happen in 2020.
In the medical car are cutters to cut the halo in seconds when needed. Any pivot or panel etc that can be removed is also a weak point.
Worst case, fire and an unconscious and trapped driver -> put out flames, then stabilise driver in the cockpit -> cut him out.
I didn't know that, thanks

thestig84
thestig84
6
Joined: Thu Nov 19, 2009 12:09 pm

Re: HALO Approved for 2018

Post

astracrazy wrote:
Sun Nov 29, 2020 10:48 pm
It saved his life today 100%. It has already saved potential major injury too in Spa 2018 when Alonso's car hit the halo and not Leclerc's head.

Nico's crash - he even admitted himself he wasn't sure if the Halo was even in his way (https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/ ... prix-crash) and the car did catch fire with that one. All be in no where near today.

Stroll crash today - non issue, he was able to escape easily. Easiest of the three.

Grosjean by far had the hardest escape of all three in the worst circumstances and was able to do so.

Could it be made easier? I have always been surprised they haven't looked into the sides being able to release if needed.

Personally though I think the focus of investigation from todays will be the barriers. That should not happen in 2020.
You simply cannot say it 100% saved his life. I am very thankful for it being fitted today but we won't continue to learn by guessing it 100% saved him. What if barrier actually got caught on halo leading central pillar and actually pulled him in!? I am not saying this happened but we need to still investigate in case there is along those lines to learn and improve.

User avatar
void
5
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2009 2:27 pm

Re: HALO Approved for 2018

Post

I was thinking here, if this crash were in lap two or any other, how could it end? The nearest track marshal shoot the fire extinguisher to far from the car and even far from cockpit.

Diesel
Diesel
74
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 11:27 pm
Location: ...

Re: HALO Approved for 2018

Post

I think it's fair to say he would likely have been seriously injured without the halo. He was very lucky, I don't think anyone imagined a scenario like this when the halo was conceived, and this was certainly pushing it to the limit of its capability. As thestig84 mentioned, a piece of the barrier could still have entered the cockpit around the halo and injured him, but I don't think this is a failure of the halo as it was never designed for such an accident.

My question is, why isn't there tecpro in front of every solid metal barrier?
"Unbelievable how silly this Formula 1 is these days, with this stupid overtakes."
—Sebastian Vettel, 2012 US GP

Jolle
Jolle
222
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:58 pm
Location: Dordrecht

Re: HALO Approved for 2018

Post

Diesel wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 12:07 am
I think it's fair to say he would likely have been seriously injured without the halo. He was very lucky, I don't think anyone imagined a scenario like this when the halo was conceived, and this was certainly pushing it to the limit of its capability. As thestig84 mentioned, a piece of the barrier could still have entered the cockpit around the halo and injured him, but I don't think this is a failure of the halo as it was never designed for such an accident.

My question is, why isn't there tecpro in front of every solid metal barrier?
Because of angles (the tecpro). If you have a guard rail next to a straight, and you catch it with the side of the car at 300 km/h... think Bottas last year but worse...

Diesel
Diesel
74
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 11:27 pm
Location: ...

Re: HALO Approved for 2018

Post

Jolle wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 12:11 am
Diesel wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 12:07 am
I think it's fair to say he would likely have been seriously injured without the halo. He was very lucky, I don't think anyone imagined a scenario like this when the halo was conceived, and this was certainly pushing it to the limit of its capability. As thestig84 mentioned, a piece of the barrier could still have entered the cockpit around the halo and injured him, but I don't think this is a failure of the halo as it was never designed for such an accident.

My question is, why isn't there tecpro in front of every solid metal barrier?
Because of angles (the tecpro). If you have a guard rail next to a straight, and you catch it with the side of the car at 300 km/h... think Bottas last year but worse...
You mean when he hit the end of it in Mexico? I think in that situation, they need to have the tecpro wrapping around or "overlapping" into the barrier so an end is never exposed like that.
"Unbelievable how silly this Formula 1 is these days, with this stupid overtakes."
—Sebastian Vettel, 2012 US GP

User avatar
Sieper
137
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:19 pm

Re: HALO Approved for 2018

Post

thestig84 wrote:
Sun Nov 29, 2020 11:30 pm
astracrazy wrote:
Sun Nov 29, 2020 10:48 pm
It saved his life today 100%. It has already saved potential major injury too in Spa 2018 when Alonso's car hit the halo and not Leclerc's head.

Nico's crash - he even admitted himself he wasn't sure if the Halo was even in his way (https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/ ... prix-crash) and the car did catch fire with that one. All be in no where near today.

Stroll crash today - non issue, he was able to escape easily. Easiest of the three.

Grosjean by far had the hardest escape of all three in the worst circumstances and was able to do so.

Could it be made easier? I have always been surprised they haven't looked into the sides being able to release if needed.

Personally though I think the focus of investigation from todays will be the barriers. That should not happen in 2020.
You simply cannot say it 100% saved his life. I am very thankful for it being fitted today but we won't continue to learn by guessing it 100% saved him. What if barrier actually got caught on halo leading central pillar and actually pulled him in!? I am not saying this happened but we need to still investigate in case there is along those lines to learn and improve.
I was also against the halo originally. For esthetica reasons, but am glad we have it now. It helps. But the airbox intake is also part of the monoque. It was still complete. I think that played an much more important role still. The car snapped round and the backside of the monoque took the brunt. Clever Carbon engineer did a lot of the saving today. The halo must have helped. It was scraped. But that could have been the outer aero lining. In any case, we need more safety. Today we dodged a horror story.
Just a personal interest, a Family recreating a WW2 May 1940 Dutch warbird from scratch: https://www.facebook.com/FlyingFokkerD21/

User avatar
subcritical71
97
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:04 pm
Location: USA-Florida

Re: HALO Approved for 2018

Post

void wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 12:02 am
I was thinking here, if this crash were in lap two or any other, how could it end? The nearest track marshal shoot the fire extinguisher to far from the car and even far from cockpit.
I also though what the hell was the first marshal doing. But the second Marshall from the other side of the track had the Armco protecting him from the heat a bit more. You could see the medical delegate push into the fire and bounce back from the heat. The guy on the other side definitely brought a knife to a gun fight, but 1) he was probably using what he was given, 2) the heat would have been intense with nothing blocking that heat on that side of the barrier (although whatever he was spraying didn’t even flash, must have been foam?!?)