Mclaren Vs Toro Rosso 2018 - time capsule

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Who will finish the 2018 season higher Mclaren or Toro Rosso?

Mclaren because "best chassis"
82
57%
Toro Rosso because "transition year"
35
24%
Nobody cares go away!
26
18%
 
Total votes: 143

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Zynerji
112
Joined: 27 Jan 2016, 16:14

Re: Mclaren Vs Toro Rosso 2018 - time capsule

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In reality, the difficulty is in getting the most OPTIMIZED solution to the new engine installation.

Just mounting it, hooking up wires, and getting it to run should be pretty straight forward.

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diffuser
206
Joined: 07 Sep 2012, 13:55
Location: Montreal

Re: Mclaren Vs Toro Rosso 2018 - time capsule

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Zynerji wrote:
21 Dec 2017, 17:31
In reality, the difficulty is in getting the most OPTIMIZED solution to the new engine installation.

Just mounting it, hooking up wires, and getting it to run should be pretty straight forward.
You don't even need to put it in the car to get it run.

To win races is another story.

The Honda PU has the Turbo in front of the motor, this shifts the main weight of the ICE back about 15-20 cm over the Renault from the pictures I saw. You need to adjust for this difference.

They have different cooling, so different radiators..Different size radiators , different radiator locations.

The only way it could work is if RBR and STR had the same Chassis.

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Zynerji
112
Joined: 27 Jan 2016, 16:14

Re: Mclaren Vs Toro Rosso 2018 - time capsule

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I may be wrong, but I always believed that the STR monocoque was identical to RBR, but they had a different floor/engine cover/sidepod/wing design.

I remember Webber saying that STR just built the RBR design in-house with very little modification...

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carisi2k
28
Joined: 15 Oct 2014, 23:26

Re: Mclaren Vs Toro Rosso 2018 - time capsule

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If the Honda fit into the size 0 packaging of Mclaren then I don't think it will be such a problem with the size 2 STR and RBR chassis which were built around the much larger Renault unit even if the engine has to move rewards in the chassis. All this nonsense about different radiators and locations is balony when you consider how big the Renault is compared to the Honda. We never got to see the spec 4 race which would have been good to see where Honda's progression was at. Red Bull has had to make significant compromises to the RB10,11,12 and 13 due to the size of the Renault.

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bauc
33
Joined: 19 Jun 2013, 10:03
Location: Skopje, Macedonia
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Re: Mclaren Vs Toro Rosso 2018 - time capsule

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carisi2k wrote:
22 Dec 2017, 04:18
If the Honda fit into the size 0 packaging of Mclaren then I don't think it will be such a problem with the size 2 STR and RBR chassis which were built around the much larger Renault unit even if the engine has to move rewards in the chassis. All this nonsense about different radiators and locations is balony when you consider how big the Renault is compared to the Honda. We never got to see the spec 4 race which would have been good to see where Honda's progression was at. Red Bull has had to make significant compromises to the RB10,11,12 and 13 due to the size of the Renault.
You need to understand that the size of the PU itself is not the only factor, but moreover the design and the layout play the most significant challenge by the means of how it fits in the chassis. For god's sake, saying that the Honda PU is smaller compared to the Reno PU and thus can easily fit into a chassis build for Reno PU is total BS. This is not your refrigerator at home when you say... hey this bottle is smaller compared to the other one, it will fit just right in....NO! It does not work that way.... this is not like in car projects were people put smaller engines in Ford Mustang's or something....even then almost the hole engine compartment needs to be remade.... and guess what .... a new gearbox as well.
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carisi2k
28
Joined: 15 Oct 2014, 23:26

Re: Mclaren Vs Toro Rosso 2018 - time capsule

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Bulldust it isn't. If something is smaller in size it will easily fit where something larger was before it. Toro rosso are not talking about size issues with the Honda but just placement issues compared to the Renault. With the current Toro rosso and RBT knowledge of the Renault and Honda engines it would be easy to build a chassis ready to take a Honda engine if Renault screws over red bull in pre season. In any case I am really looking forward to pre season testing to see where TR and Mclaren are compered to each other and the same for Renault and Honda.

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carisi2k
28
Joined: 15 Oct 2014, 23:26

Re: Mclaren Vs Toro Rosso 2018 - time capsule

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I think Mclaren are having second thoughts already. http://www.planetf1.com/news/mclaren-ab ... b-comments

makecry
19
Joined: 06 Mar 2016, 22:33

Re: Mclaren Vs Toro Rosso 2018 - time capsule

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carisi2k wrote:
22 Dec 2017, 22:56
I think Mclaren are having second thoughts already. http://www.planetf1.com/news/mclaren-ab ... da-return/
Really you deduced that from that article? LOL.

He was ASKED, what was he gonna say? Nah Honda --- us, we are never working with them again?
When asked again if McLaren would work with Honda again, he reiterated: "Oh of course, absolutely."

McHonda
10
Joined: 06 Apr 2017, 02:33

Re: Mclaren Vs Toro Rosso 2018 - time capsule

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Yep, just being polite and not burning bridges. Who knows what can happen in the future so it's just common sense to keep options open.

rogazilla
6
Joined: 05 Oct 2017, 16:35

Re: Mclaren Vs Toro Rosso 2018 - time capsule

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I predict McLaren will have higher finishes than TR but TR will score similar amount of points.

One thing interesting was read that Key said TR was going to have the rear end designed by RBT and now that's the added development they have to do. What's stopping RBT to have some resources to join design the rear end of the TR and that can significantly reduced the integration time when RBT ready to take on Honda? I dont think it is as easy as some have alluded to but it may be the real reason why TR is spending more time(resources) on integrating the Honda PU than McLaren is on the Renault PU.

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Zynerji
112
Joined: 27 Jan 2016, 16:14

Re: Mclaren Vs Toro Rosso 2018 - time capsule

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rogazilla wrote:
29 Dec 2017, 15:56
I predict McLaren will have higher finishes than TR but TR will score similar amount of points.

One thing interesting was read that Key said TR was going to have the rear end designed by RBT and now that's the added development they have to do. What's stopping RBT to have some resources to join design the rear end of the TR and that can significantly reduced the integration time when RBT ready to take on Honda? I dont think it is as easy as some have alluded to but it may be the real reason why TR is spending more time(resources) on integrating the Honda PU than McLaren is on the Renault PU.
If RBT is driving the Honda integration at STR, the chances that they are also preparing a RB14H-bspec chassis gathers more credibility, in my eyes. It would make sense to have a mule in testing at the start of 2018, as a change could be done at the beginning of the European rounds, and Tag would just re-badge the Honda instead of the Renault.

Horner's a smart guy. I'm sure that he has all of his bases covered when such an opportunity to steal a march has presented itself. Full factory backing with RBR's aero department and budget would be hard to beat, and I'm sure that is the goal.

rogazilla
6
Joined: 05 Oct 2017, 16:35

Re: Mclaren Vs Toro Rosso 2018 - time capsule

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Zynerji wrote:
29 Dec 2017, 17:15
rogazilla wrote:
29 Dec 2017, 15:56
I predict McLaren will have higher finishes than TR but TR will score similar amount of points.

One thing interesting was read that Key said TR was going to have the rear end designed by RBT and now that's the added development they have to do. What's stopping RBT to have some resources to join design the rear end of the TR and that can significantly reduced the integration time when RBT ready to take on Honda? I dont think it is as easy as some have alluded to but it may be the real reason why TR is spending more time(resources) on integrating the Honda PU than McLaren is on the Renault PU.
If RBT is driving the Honda integration at STR, the chances that they are also preparing a RB14H-bspec chassis gathers more credibility, in my eyes. It would make sense to have a mule in testing at the start of 2018, as a change could be done at the beginning of the European rounds, and Tag would just re-badge the Honda instead of the Renault.

Horner's a smart guy. I'm sure that he has all of his bases covered when such an opportunity to steal a march has presented itself. Full factory backing with RBR's aero department and budget would be hard to beat, and I'm sure that is the goal.
I should make my statement more clear before it gets taken out of context. What I read was the rear end that's supposed to house the Renault unit in TR car was RBT design. I realize what I wrote previously could be read as RBT is helping STR design their honda rear end, that's just my personal educated guess. Since STR was originally going to use RBT's rear end, now having to redesign for Honda, it would make sense RBT has a hand in it.

McHonda
10
Joined: 06 Apr 2017, 02:33

Re: Mclaren Vs Toro Rosso 2018 - time capsule

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Not sure why Red Bull would divert funds/time/personnel to help STR on the car front. Giving them a leg up with previous years designs is one thing but do Red Bull really care if STR's car isn't very good for 2018? Are they even allowed to help design another teams car in the same year anyway?

Caring about the PU performance is obvious of course so they'll be helping out where they can there I'm sure but going to the extent of helping on the car front to learn how to package the car at the rear sounds like something pretty straightforward they could do on their own if/when the switch to Honda for 2019 is confirmed. (In season change of PU isn't going to happen, pipe dream stuff).

Any reason STR are taking longer than McLaren to integrate the engine will be down to resources most likely. McLaren are a bigger team and have more to cope with it so it would be surprising any other way and I don't think it speaks to any relative ease or difficulty between the two units.

Jolle
132
Joined: 29 Jan 2014, 22:58
Location: Dordrecht

Re: Mclaren Vs Toro Rosso 2018 - time capsule

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My guess will also be that STR will be the Honda development platform for RBR in 2018, not going after pure performance. Good chance there will be a lot of PU changes, revisions, etc etc. The packaging will be build for this. No size zero, but an easy platform to test the PU, easy to drive. Making miles before speed.

roon
412
Joined: 17 Dec 2016, 19:04

Re: Mclaren Vs Toro Rosso 2018 - time capsule

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A Honda in an optimized STR chassis vs a Renault in crammed into a size zero...

Gonna be an interesting year.