Kimi Raikkonen performance

[marmer]

Can someone make sense from Raikkonen’s performance?

Easy. He is only competitive when he has the fastest most perfectly balanced car. McLaren 2003, 2005. Ferrari 2007, 2008. Lotus 2012, 2013 (were actually the joint fastest cars IMO).

Actually I don't recall the 07 car being great didn't ham and Alonso split the wins to much between themselves both drivers got 4 wins each while Kimi got 6

[PlatinumZealot]

Can someone make sense from Raikkonen’s performance?

Easy. He is only competitive when he has the fastest most perfectly balanced car. McLaren 2003, 2005. Ferrari 2007, 2008. Lotus 2012, 2013 (were actually the joint fastest cars IMO).

Actually I don't recall the 07 car being great didn't ham and Alonso split the wins to much between themselves both drivers got 4 wins each while Kimi got 6

It is widely accepted that the 2007 Ferrari was the fastest car that year by a very significant margin. Didn't you get the memo?

[Silent Storm]

There is no proof of 2007 Ferrari to be the fastest car, driver performance has everything mixed up, Kimi was on form in those Mclaren 03 and 05, he struggled with bridgestone tyres as everyone else who went from Michelin to Bridgestone. Kimi is just not consistent, 1 WDC was enough for him after that he is in F1 just because he enjoys driving, There is a video of Schumacher explaining how he had a influence on 2008 development and how he made a mistake and the car was more understeery to look after the rears which helped Massa and he said it was too late to go back from it, after that understeer Kimi lost all motivation and was happy with 1 WDC, If you look at other sports its normal for athletes to be average after going to different teams while they were challenging top players in old teams, even when there is no equipment involved.

Kimi could have won in Monaco, Azerbaijan, Hungary, Singapore, Malaysia.

The fact is that these long cars are hurting him, compare the old 2005 cars wheelbase to 2017 cars, I also don't know why Arrivabene keeps saying Kimi and Seb have similar driving style when it's clear sebastian likes the rear to be stable like Alonso, Alonso and Seb would be similar when it comes to driving style and Button and Kimi have similar, with Kimi being able to handle the unstable rear.

When people compare 2014 they forget that the car was so bad no setup work could be done on it, It has been said many times that even Alonso could not go deep into the setup, while Kimi was hunting for a drivable balance in all 3 FP sessions, he was locking up all the time. James Allison said if they improved to front end the rear would get worse, and if they improved the rear Kimi was locking up the whole race. The reason for that is, Kimi's usage of steering wheel and timing with gears and brakes are different compared to Alonso, Kimi changes gears later than Alonso and because of that there is pressure in the brakes when he is going into the corners, In this situation the car needs to be responsive but Alonso doesn't like that as he is comfortable with understeer and just wanted a better traction out of the corners. We could say why didn't Kimi brake early or change gears early but then he would be just adjusting or compromising overall speed to not lockup, It would also be counter-intuitive. He is not sensitive to understeer as people think because when he gets understeer he rotates the car on throttle which he was not able to do in 2014, Allison noted that the couple of times Kimi had a good balance he was a lot closer to Alonso or beat him in Qualifying only to struggle in first half of the race with high fuel loads. Even when he was struggling the gap to Fernando was similar to Fernando vs Massa, and Massa never complained about balance issues and we never saw him struggling with his cars.

[PlatinumZealot]

Everything thing not perfect hurts Kimi. That is how you can make sense of his performance. He is not adaptable at all, and has the arrogance not to even try learn to drive car far from perfect. And I was a kimi supporter in his McLaren days. After I saw his true colours i had to move on.

[Moose]

You may have a point Silent Storm, but personally, I believe in using Occam's Razor where we can't do any better.

Which is the simpler explanation?
1) Kimi and Massa have always been pretty similarly not bad, but not great drivers, and the 2007 Ferrari was a really stonking car.
2) Kimi was really good for a few years, out drove a poor 2007 Ferrari, along side Massa who was also miraculously at the same time an amazing driver of the quality we've only seen 4 or 5 of in the history of F1. Then strangely became a not bad, but not great driver at exactly the same moment as Massa did.

To me at least, the idea that the 2007 Ferrari was clearly the fastest car is the simpler of these two explanations.

[3jawchuck]

Everything thing not perfect hurts Kimi. That is how you can make sense of his performance. He is not adaptable at all, and has the arrogance not to even try learn to drive car far from perfect. And I was a kimi supporter in his McLaren days. After I saw his true colours i had to move on.

These fit closely with my thoughts. Like many drivers he is blisteringly fast when all is perfect with the car, conditions and him, but he hasn't got the talent to drive well in a car that isn't perfect. He also lacks the ability to keep on it, he can't seem to relentlessly pump out good laps. This is why, most of his career he has been given the number two role.

I do also find his attitude lacking, he has said he won't change his style (probably just covering up for his lack of ability to adapt). His aversion to the simulator is probably, not because he thinks he doesn't need it, but because he thinks it will show him for what he really is.

In short, he's mediocre, like 90% of the field.

[Schuttelberg]

There's always a reason Raikkonen isn't good enough apart from Raikkonen. Like I have often said, for him to do something special, he needs the sun and it's planets and satellites to align in one straight line. To be simple, he will do something of substance once in a blue moon, something any driver driving in F1 is capable of.

There's one thing that Raikkonen does have that none of the other F1 drivers do- A manager in Steve Robertson who negotiates the best and most lucrative contracts for him, inspite of his poor performances.

[Silent Storm]

I do also find his attitude lacking, he has said he won't change his style (probably just covering up for his lack of ability to adapt). His aversion to the simulator is probably, not because he thinks he doesn't need it, but because he thinks it will show him for what he really is.

Lewis doesn't like using the simulator too because some drivers rely on the feel of the steering wheel and simulator is just a waste of time for them, it's the same reason with Kimi.

[Silent Storm]

There's always a reason Raikkonen isn't good enough apart from Raikkonen. Like I have often said, for him to do something special, he needs the sun and it's planets and satellites to align in one straight line. To be simple, he will do something of substance once in a blue moon, something any driver driving in F1 is capable of.

There's one thing that Raikkonen does have that none of the other F1 drivers do- A manager in Steve Robertson who negotiates the best and most lucrative contracts for him, inspite of his poor performances.

Those reasons are not excuses, he has proven his speed to people in this sport and there are people who know what he is capable of, and these people know more about him than you and me, and they have a truckload of driver telemetry data and know whats good for the team, this is F1 not charity, no matter how great Steve Robertson is if a driver is not performing he will be sacked.

The only reason Kimi is in F1 when he is way out of form and slow is because he will be the natural No 2 driver, and Ferrari likes to focus on 1 driver. If that was not the case then Sergio Marchionne would have ordered to sack him but he did not, whereas the same man was the reason James Allison left the team because 2016 was disappointing, this man doesn't give anyone a second chance and with that attitude towards everything do you think he would have kept keep Kimi from 2015 - 2018 with this level of performance? Logically it doesn't make sense for Raikkonen to be in F1 when he is 38 and not in his prime, It's like Schumacher vs Rosberg, Schumacher in his prime wouldn't get beaten by Rosberg.

To people who are saying he does not adapt, this is what Ross Brawn said

“I was particularly pleased for Kimi because he struggled a little at the beginning to adapt to the new team,
car and particularly the Bridgestone tyre characteristics. What impressed me was that he worked with his engineers, understood the issues, got on top of the situation and, importantly and in the style of Michael, he did it in a quiet way within the
privacy of the team. His performance in the second half of the season was exceptional.” (Speaking after the end of the 2007 season)

[mertol]

There's always a reason Raikkonen isn't good enough apart from Raikkonen. Like I have often said, for him to do something special, he needs the sun and it's planets and satellites to align in one straight line. To be simple, he will do something of substance once in a blue moon, something any driver driving in F1 is capable of.

There's one thing that Raikkonen does have that none of the other F1 drivers do- A manager in Steve Robertson who negotiates the best and most lucrative contracts for him, inspite of his poor performances.

Those reasons are not excuses, he has proven his speed to people in this sport and there are people who know what he is capable of, and these people know more about him than you and me, and they have a truckload of driver telemetry data and know whats good for the team, this is F1 not charity, no matter how great Steve Robertson is if a driver is not performing he will be sacked.

The only reason Kimi is in F1 when he is way out of form and slow is because he will be the natural No 2 driver, and Ferrari likes to focus on 1 driver. If that was not the case then Sergio Marchionne would have ordered to sack him but he did not, whereas the same man was the reason James Allison left the team because 2016 was disappointing, this man doesn't give anyone a second chance and with that attitude towards everything do you think he would have kept keep Kimi from 2015 - 2018 with this level of performance? Logically it doesn't make sense for Raikkonen to be in F1 when he is 38 and not in his prime, It's like Schumacher vs Rosberg, Schumacher in his prime wouldn't get beaten by Rosberg.

To people who are saying he does not adapt, this is what Ross Brawn said

“I was particularly pleased for Kimi because he struggled a little at the beginning to adapt to the new team,
car and particularly the Bridgestone tyre characteristics. What impressed me was that he worked with his engineers, understood the issues, got on top of the situation and, importantly and in the style of Michael, he did it in a quiet way within the
privacy of the team. His performance in the second half of the season was exceptional.” (Speaking after the end of the 2007 season)

He is bad number 2. Every time he had to block the mercs this year he couldn't do it just compare him to Bottas, he is rarely close to his teammate or the mercs to guard his back or make any difference at all, he pretty much lost the constructors title for Ferrari all by himself, he took out his teammate. He is the worst number 2 ever.
The part about what Ross Brawn says is irrelevant and is appeal to authority fallacy.

[Ennis]

There's always a reason Raikkonen isn't good enough apart from Raikkonen. Like I have often said, for him to do something special, he needs the sun and it's planets and satellites to align in one straight line. To be simple, he will do something of substance once in a blue moon, something any driver driving in F1 is capable of.

There's one thing that Raikkonen does have that none of the other F1 drivers do- A manager in Steve Robertson who negotiates the best and most lucrative contracts for him, inspite of his poor performances.

Those reasons are not excuses, he has proven his speed to people in this sport and there are people who know what he is capable of, and these people know more about him than you and me, and they have a truckload of driver telemetry data and know whats good for the team, this is F1 not charity, no matter how great Steve Robertson is if a driver is not performing he will be sacked.

The only reason Kimi is in F1 when he is way out of form and slow is because he will be the natural No 2 driver, and Ferrari likes to focus on 1 driver. If that was not the case then Sergio Marchionne would have ordered to sack him but he did not, whereas the same man was the reason James Allison left the team because 2016 was disappointing, this man doesn't give anyone a second chance and with that attitude towards everything do you think he would have kept keep Kimi from 2015 - 2018 with this level of performance? Logically it doesn't make sense for Raikkonen to be in F1 when he is 38 and not in his prime, It's like Schumacher vs Rosberg, Schumacher in his prime wouldn't get beaten by Rosberg.

To people who are saying he does not adapt, this is what Ross Brawn said

“I was particularly pleased for Kimi because he struggled a little at the beginning to adapt to the new team,
car and particularly the Bridgestone tyre characteristics. What impressed me was that he worked with his engineers, understood the issues, got on top of the situation and, importantly and in the style of Michael, he did it in a quiet way within the
privacy of the team. His performance in the second half of the season was exceptional.” (Speaking after the end of the 2007 season)

I don't understand this ongoing defence of him. Surely part of being a quick driver is the ability to either resolve issues through setup, or drive around them. A driver who is fast within a very narrow sweet spot is not a fast driver, there is likely any number of circumstances/regulations/conditions where any driver on the grid could be quicker than another but what makes a fast driver (in F1 terms) is the ability to do it across many circumstances, regulations & conditions.

When paired with WDCs he has come up short every time. His single WDC came up against Massa. Oddly enough, Alonso absolutely butchered both he & Massa when paired with him. I know F1 driver maths doesn't add up, but when you have a relatively comparable Kimi & Massa, and then an elite driver destroying them in relatively equal measure, it's at least a decent indicator that when both Kimi & Massa were highly rated it was more of a result of being in what must have been a very good car whilst coupled with an average, but not yet found out to be average, yardstick.

Kimi is clearly not the worst driver in the world. He has had the pace to be considered worthy of a long F1 career. But that WDC in what history has taught me must have been clearly the fastest car (or he wouldn't have got close to Alonso), coupled with the cult of his persona, has definitely led to him earning a lot more money and enjoying a much longer career with much more established drives than others of equal or greater driving quality have got near to. Which doesn't really bother me, sportsperson pay has always come with an 'appeal' payment alongside the 'talent' payment.

Not sure when the Brawn quote is from, but not sure we can take much from it. The car is only capable of what he thinks it is capable of, which is often a result of how quick your quickest driver can drive it. And then he might not be speaking 100% honestly, if he was still essentially employing the guy

[3jawchuck]

... led to him earning a lot more money and enjoying a much longer career with much more established drives than others of equal or greater driving quality have got near to. Which doesn't really bother me, sportsperson pay has always come with an 'appeal' payment alongside the 'talent' payment....

The money doesn't bother me, but I am slightly miffed by him taking up a seat which a better driver could take, in turn freeing up space in a lower team for a younger up and coming driver.

[PlatinumZealot]

I do also find his attitude lacking, he has said he won't change his style (probably just covering up for his lack of ability to adapt). His aversion to the simulator is probably, not because he thinks he doesn't need it, but because he thinks it will show him for what he really is.

Lewis doesn't like using the simulator too because some drivers rely on the feel of the steering wheel and simulator is just a waste of time for them, it's the same reason with Kimi.

Not really true. They are some tracks* that Lewis does not do the track walk on. But Lewis does go in the simulator a lot. Right from his McLaren days there are many videos of Lewis using the sim. kimi on the other hand would not be caught dead in one!

[PlatinumZealot]

There's always a reason Raikkonen isn't good enough apart from Raikkonen. Like I have often said, for him to do something special, he needs the sun and it's planets and satellites to align in one straight line. To be simple, he will do something of substance once in a blue moon, something any driver driving in F1 is capable of.

There's one thing that Raikkonen does have that none of the other F1 drivers do- A manager in Steve Robertson who negotiates the best and most lucrative contracts for him, inspite of his poor performances.

Those reasons are not excuses, he has proven his speed to people in this sport and there are people who know what he is capable of, and these people know more about him than you and me, and they have a truckload of driver telemetry data and know whats good for the team, this is F1 not charity, no matter how great Steve Robertson is if a driver is not performing he will be sacked.

The only reason Kimi is in F1 when he is way out of form and slow is because he will be the natural No 2 driver, and Ferrari likes to focus on 1 driver. If that was not the case then Sergio Marchionne would have ordered to sack him but he did not, whereas the same man was the reason James Allison left the team because 2016 was disappointing, this man doesn't give anyone a second chance and with that attitude towards everything do you think he would have kept keep Kimi from 2015 - 2018 with this level of performance? Logically it doesn't make sense for Raikkonen to be in F1 when he is 38 and not in his prime, It's like Schumacher vs Rosberg, Schumacher in his prime wouldn't get beaten by Rosberg.

To people who are saying he does not adapt, this is what Ross Brawn said

“I was particularly pleased for Kimi because he struggled a little at the beginning to adapt to the new team,
car and particularly the Bridgestone tyre characteristics. What impressed me was that he worked with his engineers, understood the issues, got on top of the situation and, importantly and in the style of Michael, he did it in a quiet way within the
privacy of the team. His performance in the second half of the season was exceptional.” (Speaking after the end of the 2007 season)

Erm. Was that after he had like ten steering racks custom tailored to the little twist he does with his wrist 123.5 degrees of turn of the steering wheel, to the right, when the tyre pressure is above 16 psi, but! Below 16.34 psi and the car suspension is within jounce limits of 1.568 mm per second cubed?

Bwoah.. Erm i mean. Nah. In my opinion Ferrari and by extension, Ros Brawn have to praise kimi. They just have to because he is a Ferrari world champion. And that does mean a lot. Kimi as much as we like to make fun of him, is very valued at Ferrari. And arguably his Ferrari champion status commands more respect within Ferrari than Sebastian's and even Arrivabene. Check it out.

[bill shoe]

Everything thing not perfect hurts Kimi. That is how you can make sense of his performance. He is not adaptable at all, and has the arrogance not to even try learn to drive car far from perfect. And I was a kimi supporter in his McLaren days. After I saw his true colours i had to move on.

He is unable to drive around problems as well as A-level F1 drivers, but the flip side is that he is able to precisely identify weaknesses in the car better than anyone else. Kimi is an ideal test/development driver, and that makes him a fantastic partner to a superfast #1 driver like Vettel or Alonso. If he had no value beyond his raw laptimes then Ferrari would obviously never keep him.