General Honda F1 Topic

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
Bill
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by Bill » Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:47 pm

Cmon they is an interview in both both wolf ,Lewis even Horner acknowledged that they merc no longer have the benchmark pu , even Andy cowled agree to this in a press conference where they had all the engine tech heads. Even of speed trap Ferrari cars are always on top, although it may not be the best reliable indicator

lio007
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by lio007 » Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:04 pm

Bill wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 5:08 pm
Ferrari is now the best pu , Mercedes has nothing special since oil burning has been burned,they are not trying hard to retain the mguh for 2021 since they no longer have an advantage.honda is the only manufacturer advocating hard to keep it
Todays AMuS report says pretty much the opposite! Merc+Ferr+ Ren pushing to obtain the MGUH

HPD
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by HPD » Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:57 pm

lio007 wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:04 pm
Bill wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 5:08 pm
Ferrari is now the best pu , Mercedes has nothing special since oil burning has been burned,they are not trying hard to retain the mguh for 2021 since they no longer have an advantage.honda is the only manufacturer advocating hard to keep it
Todays AMuS report says pretty much the opposite! Merc+Ferr+ Ren pushing to obtain the MGUH
It is public knowledge that Honda did not want to withdraw the MGUH. Now the rest join the same thought as Honda.
You can search for interviews, you will find a lot of information about Honda position with the MUGH

Revs84
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by Revs84 » Fri Jul 06, 2018 8:39 pm

Q: Tanabe-san, what’s Honda’s position on the new rules and specifically the MGU-H?

Toyoharu Tanabe: Yes, we will miss the MGU-H. I think we haven’t decided everything yet for 2021. But the direction from the FIA we respect, we respect the other manufacturers’ direction, but we think we will miss the MGU-H, such a high pinnacle of technology for the future and relevant to the production car as well.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/head ... spain.html

roon
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by roon » Sat Jul 07, 2018 3:42 am

amho wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 12:46 pm
Big Tea wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 11:17 pm
amho wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:14 pm

We don't know drag levels or E-deployment strategy during lap to judge decisively about power gap between cars, but I checked the video footage and calculated transmission ratio based on about 30 samples of speed and engine rev and it seems that Torro rosso have lower transmission ratio in 4th, 5th,6th,7th and 8th gear (i didn't check other gears) in comparison to Mercedes,so it explain part of STR's speed deficit compared to Mercedes. It has been a question that why Mclaren Honda also was running lower gear ratio despite of power deficit to it's competitors.
Are they hitting the rev limiter in top? if not, the lower ratio would not give them reduced speed (would it?)
With longer gearing they would be slower as the power unit would still not get them to a higher speed but would also not accelerate then as quickly. (or am I wrong here?)
They don't hit rev limiter, low gear ratio means less torque at wheel so slower acceleration, so it takes more time to reach a certain speed. For exampke imagin you drive a car and going uphill, with 2nd gear you reach near rev limit and speed of 80 kph, but if you go that uphill with 4th gear, car doesn't have enough torque at wheel so a lot slower acceleration and car speed doesn't exceed 60 kph...
No ratio changes this season, so maybe it was done in expectation for power increases. Or for sandbagging.

McMika98
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by McMika98 » Sat Jul 07, 2018 3:04 pm

Very clear that the Honda engine is now at least on par if not better than the Renault engine going by quali. Almost no Fp3 run, last minute parts installation and driver not fully confident to push, yet the car is within touching distance of Renault, Force India and Mclaren.
The Ferrari engine something in Quali, Merc days of sandbagging are no more.

MMMMMMMM
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by MMMMMMMM » Sun Jul 08, 2018 9:20 pm

Mate, you’re last at the table. We’ve agreed Honda surpassed Renault two years ago and is hunting Mercedes right now. It ain’t too far away actually... Track results speak for themselves and if you look at the Constuctors Championship, the Honda powered Toro Rosso has a tenth (10%) of the Mercedes points. If that’s not enough argument for you, how about ex-partners McLaren, which literally have hit rock bottom. Bottom as they are, they have 2.5x more points than Toro Rosso Honda.
Enough said about track performance, let’s look at reliability, which has indeed improved compared to previous years. They are still nowhere compared to the other engine manufacturers, but this year is feasible they finish the championship with only 10-12 PU units used per car. If they can halve that next year, they’re on the right path for 2020-2021.

Talisman
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by Talisman » Sun Jul 08, 2018 10:49 pm

HPD wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:57 pm
lio007 wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:04 pm
Bill wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 5:08 pm
Ferrari is now the best pu , Mercedes has nothing special since oil burning has been burned,they are not trying hard to retain the mguh for 2021 since they no longer have an advantage.honda is the only manufacturer advocating hard to keep it
Todays AMuS report says pretty much the opposite! Merc+Ferr+ Ren pushing to obtain the MGUH
It is public knowledge that Honda did not want to withdraw the MGUH. Now the rest join the same thought as Honda.
You can search for interviews, you will find a lot of information about Honda position with the MUGH
I think you got it the wrong way round. It is Mercedes and Ferrari in particular that have opposed the removal of the MGUH and fought for it. Honda has been largely silent on the political front as it often tends to be.

Revs84
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by Revs84 » Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:17 am

MMMMMMMM wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 9:20 pm
Mate, you’re last at the table. We’ve agreed Honda surpassed Renault two years ago and is hunting Mercedes right now. It ain’t too far away actually... Track results speak for themselves and if you look at the Constuctors Championship, the Honda powered Toro Rosso has a tenth (10%) of the Mercedes points. If that’s not enough argument for you, how about ex-partners McLaren, which literally have hit rock bottom. Bottom as they are, they have 2.5x more points than Toro Rosso Honda.
Enough said about track performance, let’s look at reliability, which has indeed improved compared to previous years. They are still nowhere compared to the other engine manufacturers, but this year is feasible they finish the championship with only 10-12 PU units used per car. If they can halve that next year, they’re on the right path for 2020-2021.
There are a lot of factors which you are ignoring I'm afraid.

dren
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by dren » Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:51 am

Gasly said they are losing all of their pace in the straights saying the PU is holding them back: https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13728 ... ghts-crazy
Honda!

HPD
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by HPD » Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:35 pm

dren wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:51 am
Gasly said they are losing all of their pace in the straights saying the PU is holding them back: https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13728 ... ghts-crazy
On the one hand it is very true. It is a very hard track for the engine.
But on the other hand, it's a little exaggerated, the race pace was not that bad.
If you can fight and overtake Force India then your engine should not be so bad.

The interview is Saturday.

HPD
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by HPD » Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:03 pm

Pierre Gasly of Toro Rosso, who drives Honda's, also mentioned a loss of about one second on the straights, but according to Horner it is not necessary to look at the situation as it is now, but at the potential.

"You could see very well this weekend at what level everyone is and I think that Honda and Renault are in a similar situation at the moment. However, it is all about potential and possible development. There is a hole that needs to be repaired and we really believe in what is in the pipeline at Honda to close it. "

For Red Bull it is also simply 'time for change', says Horner. "With Renault, it's the same story year after year. At Honda we see good progress, so that seems like the right choice. "

https://www.formule1.nl/nieuws/horner-s ... erstappen/
In short, Renault and Honda were losing a lot of time this weekend. This shows how far they are from Ferrari and Mercedes

Bill
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by Bill » Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:33 pm

I don't think its fair to lump Honda and Renault as same ,Renault problem is ers related they run out of power earlier than other manufacturers and they don't have credible quali mode , in silverstone both Renault and Rbr went backward from their usual respective rivals. Honda on the other hand maintained their normal quali position and could fight and were faster than force India.

vassilispapadop
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by vassilispapadop » Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:20 pm

Q - British GP
S Perez 27.953 [7] 35.803 [15] 24.172
P Gasly 28.355 [17] 35.780 [14] 24.152
M Ericsson 28.217 [13] 35.509 [10] 24.413
F Alonso 28.319 [16] 35.634 [11] 24.104

I don't know where this 1 second deficit on the straights coming from. Of course Honda still miles behind of Ferrari and Mercedes engines but definitely they been chipping away. As mentioned above you can't try out brake a FI with 1 second slower engine. I'm not quite sure if Gasly wisely made those comments.
ps. not looked into Q3 runners for obvious reasons

TakataDomeNSX
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by TakataDomeNSX » Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:27 pm

To be honest I felt not just a bit peeved by Gasly's comments. He knew what he was getting coming into the year with the weakest engine of the lot, and he was saying good things up to Canada about how hard Honda are working and the Canada upgrade was really good. After that its a 180, which I really dislike from a driver. Certainly I feel a little less enthused about this driver now.

I believe part of the problem comes from bolting on more downforce from a new package they do not yet understand how to setup. It's been pretty obvious that the speeds on the straights have come down after the aero upgrade the last two races. Of course TR are going to try more downforce now after the PU upgrade has come in, they need to become faster through the corners because the extra grunt allows this. The other thing is I really hope TR and RB arent going to be whinging little b****ches over the next few years. Max did the same thing this weekend.