General Honda F1 Topic

[HPD]

That means Verstappen, currently 21, has until 2020 to take the honour - but Red Bull motorsport advisor Helmut Marko said there are "no excuses" not to try to achieve it in 2019.

"We're really looking forward to next year," Marko told Autosport.
"The aim is to have the youngest world champion. Two years we have, but we'll go for it next year.
"We know the first year with a new engine manufacturer is not easy.
"But the aim, and the goal that I've told all the people, is that we have to go for the championship from the beginning. No excuses."

Marko admitted that Honda reliability could be a concern, but he stressed that the high number of engine changes current Honda team Toro Rosso has accrued in 2018 is related to a strategy of wanting to test new developments.

"It's tactical to get the best for next year," he said.
"Toro Rosso are sacrificing their season for next year. It's part of our concept that we have with Honda.
"The figures are already ahead of Renault.
"But even so if you have one or two starts from the back, with Verstappen there's some excitement.
"On the radio he's talking like he's sitting with a cup of tea. The sort of information he is asking for... He's unbelievable. There is no limit yet."

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13980 ... 9-champion

[subcritical71]

I understand their strategy regarding getting upgrades in the engine and testing for next year as rapidly as possible but being 10kW behind the others does you no good if you can’t make it last 7 races. I’m hopeful that they have at least left some areas untouched for a few upgrade cycles so they are not completely blind to the reliability risks.

[dren]

Even if you're in the hunt for half the races, they'll have a shot at the drivers assuming it'll be a three way battle with different drivers winning every other race.

[Bill]

Honda unreliability is exaggerated they had problem with mguh shaft last year and they solved that problem . They only had one problem for this year in Australia and had no problems since then

[Big Tea]

Even if you're in the hunt for half the races, they'll have a shot at the drivers assuming it'll be a three way battle with different drivers winning every other race.

It also seems that the top 3 teams are capable of consistently getting back into the top half of the points even if they start from the back, so probably worth sacrificing an engine for the extra output over say 4 races. It could well only mean a loss of 6 points or so, which could easily be the equivalent of having good or bad position for a safety car.

[JordanMugen]

I understand their strategy regarding getting upgrades in the engine and testing for next year as rapidly as possible but being 10kW behind the others does you no good if you can’t make it last 7 races.

They won't even attempt that, that's too ambitious. Best to plan for say 5 units, 4-5 rounds per unit, with two planned tactical changes or may even 6 or 7 units. If the advantage from having the 4 extra units outweighs the disadvantage of four rear-of-grid starts, it is well worth it.

Evidently, the restricted number of power unit rules are dumb. Customer teams like Williams should pay for season leases, all costs covered, they shouldn't pay per unit... That's silly.

Customers don't pay per unit in Indycar AFAIK. Each unit has a sensible mileage allocation, if they have a blow up they get a new unit -- a straight-forward lease where everything is covered. No per unit costs, no need to "eek" units out to maximum mileage while running on detuned power unit modes.

[gdanielwesley]

Evidently, the restricted number of power unit rules are dumb. Customer teams like Williams should pay for season leases, all costs covered, they shouldn't pay per unit... That's silly.

Customers don't pay per unit in Indycar AFAIK. Each unit has a sensible mileage allocation, if they have a blow up they get a new unit -- a straight-forward lease where everything is covered. No per unit costs, no need to "eek" units out to maximum mileage while running on detuned power unit modes.

This will not work in F1, the customer teams still design the cooling system which will tightly be coupled with aero of the car .so if they end up not cooling the engine enough that could lead to PU failure..For eg. Redbull has worse reliability than the other Renault customer teams.. also I'd imagine that the F1 engines are quite a bit more expensive compared to Indy series.

[Laserguru]

Evidently, the restricted number of power unit rules are dumb. Customer teams like Williams should pay for season leases, all costs covered, they shouldn't pay per unit... That's silly.

Customers don't pay per unit in Indycar AFAIK. Each unit has a sensible mileage allocation, if they have a blow up they get a new unit -- a straight-forward lease where everything is covered. No per unit costs, no need to "eek" units out to maximum mileage while running on detuned power unit modes.

This will not work in F1, the customer teams still design the cooling system which will tightly be coupled with aero of the car .so if they end up not cooling the engine enough that could lead to PU failure..For eg. Redbull has worse reliability than the other Renault customer teams.. also I'd imagine that the F1 engines are quite a bit more expensive compared to Indy series.

Interesting, however I cannot find an argument in your reasoning against such a lease structure.
Who cares if RBR or any other team needs 1 or 2 ice’s or whatever power unit components more? They build many more power units anyhow and select the best. https://www.f1today.net/en/news/f1/2351 ... s-as-crazy This year it was reported selection started at pre season testing already. https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... wSYE2.html You may get a less performing or less reliable component if you burn too many of them? Maybe they even do not need to build a single power unit component extra if teams would replace them every race due to the reduced lifetime requirements (less reliable engines otherwise rejected can be deployed).
If you cannot make it to the finish or need to turn your engine down lasting the race due to poor cooling you have a serious problem anyhow.
Question would be: when (after how many races) can you get a fresh power unit without having a failure (preventive)?

[HPD]

Red Bull/Honda get ExxonMobil fuel boost for F1 2019 preparations

ExxonMobil's global motorsports technology manager David Tsurusaki told Autosport: "When we had this announcement with Honda and Toro Rosso last year, it meant only getting ready for Barcelona testing in December - which was a short timeline.

"But now, after a year of continuous change, adjustments and testing, we have already been working on 2019 - which is really where you want to be.

"You don't want to be doing all your upgrades and preparations during the year, and then at the end of it start working on 2019. You want to be working on 2019 pretty early.

"So the fact we've had the chance to work with the Honda guys again, get comfortable with them, get things rolling, get testing going and then start working on the single cylinder already with the full V6 durability tests now, it is exactly where we want to be.

"We are pretty excited. We are in a good position and think they have the right fuel and the right lubricants ready for 2019."

Asked how much that will help, Tsurusaki said: "I wouldn't say it's a major advantage, but it is a big step where we are not competing for time and testing time with someone else.

"In the case of previous engine manufacturers, we weren't necessarily the priority to test. So in this case we are not only the priority, we are the only ones. It is the best scenario.

"There were some comments earlier in the season about what is the best way to have fuel and oil suppliers for manufacturers, and it is true that if you are dedicated - which means one fuel and oil supplier - then you are minimising the duplicated testing time.

"I think we are already seeing the rewards of the quick response we can have. It means if we get the data we can adjust from there. And when you are doing that in weeks versus months it makes a big difference."

[Alexf1]

I understand their strategy regarding getting upgrades in the engine and testing for next year as rapidly as possible but being 10kW behind the others does you no good if you can’t make it last 7 races.

They won't even attempt that, that's too ambitious. Best to plan for say 5 units, 4-5 rounds per unit, with two planned tactical changes or may even 6 or 7 units. If the advantage from having the 4 extra units outweighs the disadvantage of four rear-of-grid starts, it is well worth it.

Evidently, the restricted number of power unit rules are dumb. Customer teams like Williams should pay for season leases, all costs covered, they shouldn't pay per unit... That's silly.

Customers don't pay per unit in Indycar AFAIK. Each unit has a sensible mileage allocation, if they have a blow up they get a new unit -- a straight-forward lease where everything is covered. No per unit costs, no need to "eek" units out to maximum mileage while running on detuned power unit modes.

Could be an interesting engine strategy: have stronger qualifying mode (at the expense of lifespan) and change to 2nd engine in 4th or 5th raceweekend to have an offset strategy (strong when competition is weak). And use 1st engine as detuned friday engine as long as possible.

[Squid]

Source on customer teams paying per unit? I heard teams paid for a supply program meant to cover the entire season.

[zac510]

I understand their strategy regarding getting upgrades in the engine and testing for next year as rapidly as possible but being 10kW behind the others does you no good if you can’t make it last 7 races.

They won't even attempt that, that's too ambitious. Best to plan for say 5 units, 4-5 rounds per unit, with two planned tactical changes or may even 6 or 7 units. If the advantage from having the 4 extra units outweighs the disadvantage of four rear-of-grid starts, it is well worth it.

Evidently, the restricted number of power unit rules are dumb. Customer teams like Williams should pay for season leases, all costs covered, they shouldn't pay per unit... That's silly.

Customers don't pay per unit in Indycar AFAIK. Each unit has a sensible mileage allocation, if they have a blow up they get a new unit -- a straight-forward lease where everything is covered. No per unit costs, no need to "eek" units out to maximum mileage while running on detuned power unit modes.

Could be an interesting engine strategy: have stronger qualifying mode (at the expense of lifespan) and change to 2nd engine in 4th or 5th raceweekend to have an offset strategy (strong when competition is weak). And use 1st engine as detuned friday engine as long as possible.

The team could also politically petition the FIA to reduce the penalty of an engine change, on the back of fan popularity. If the FIA were to reduce it to a 10 place penalty, or constructor point penalty would start to make taking a few tactical penalties per year very appealing.

[Squid]

https://twitter.com/HondaRacingF1/statu ... 2111196160

I love that since splitting with McLaren, Honda became much more their own entity within F1. It's like that person who's always the +1 and says nothing during social gatherings, but when they break up they start to socialize more and befriend the others.

[etusch]

Yoshinori Kawasaki, from IHI said: “Through this new technical partnership, our aim is for the Honda PU to deliver the best possible performance, by accelerating development of the turbocharger.

“We hope that as from the 2019 season, Honda’s power unit, using the IHI turbocharger, will deliver the sort of performance that thrilled motor sport fans back in the 80s and 90s.”

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/hond ... t/3213034/

[Hino]

In an interview with Rick Winkelman in Formula 1 Café, Friday night at Ziggo Sport, Max Verstappen was put through the wringer about 2019.

Looking ahead to next year you will, of course, get a new Red Bull Racing car, with a Honda power unit in the back. Have you driven the new car in the simulator yet? "No, not yet. However, we did test the new suspension and such a few times in the simulator."

Is there a car in Milton Keynes yet with a Honda engine in it? "No, but we do have all simulations. A Honda engine is running on the test bench. At Red Bull Racing we have a test bench that we can link to the simulator, so you can run the engine and analyse all data."

Rumours are that the Honda engine will bring more power. In what way does the car need to be modified for this? "The most impacted will be the gearbox, with regard to the forces that are being released. The cooling also has to be modified. We have made the decision early on to continue with Honda and we have plenty of people and know-how to be able to make all these modifications."

Dr. Helmut Marko expects to be able to go for the Grand Prize next year.... "We hope so, of course, but we have to wait and see what the start of the season will look like. I believe we will make another step forward, just with the engine alone."

https://www.verstappen.nl/en/article/3504/