General Honda F1 Topic

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
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etusch
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Re: Honda Power Unit

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MrPotatoHead wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:08 am
GhostF1 wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 3:21 am
carisi2k wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:35 am


Those good words seem to be about how well the spec 4 /2018 power unit fits into the torro rosso chassis and not about their relationship. It is safe to presume that the Honda engine has been running on the engine dyno and simulator at RBT since the Honda to Torro Rosso announcement and possibly even being backed to backed against the 2017 Renault.

I wish there was testing like the old days because not only would we have torro rosso running around with a honda engine already but Red Bull would most likely be testing the Honda engine as well with the expected break up at the end of 2018 with Renault. Honda would also have seen the issues with their 2017 engine much sooner and have been able to put into place solutions much sooner.
Put it this way, for the entirety of the 2018 season, RBR will have all the access in the world to Honda's progress and data, while also VERY likely giving Honda unprecedented access to their data from running the Renault.
People seem to forget that McLaren had Mercedes engines before Honda... if there was anything to be learned they already had access to information from the best engine in the field.
If I am not wrong McLaren didn't use mercedes turbo engine

Zynerji
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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2014?

Snorked
Snorked
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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dren wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:26 pm


All I can find on Asaki is that he was the Chief Engineer for the N-Box kei car line that Honda developed a few years ago. I'm a fan of the N-One:
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com ... -n-one.jpg

This Japanese car journalist say he was head of development at some point during Honda's F1 Phase 2:

Honda F1 next season, so far just positive news comes in. Of course, while strengthening the structure of the Japanese side (Sakura) is necessary, Mr. Asaki who was in charge of engine development in the second phase who won the responsibility


https://news.yahoo.co.jp/byline/kunisaw ... -00079210/

Also worked on the VTEC engine, he has several patents on Google.

Is this where this Red Bull / Newey rumour is coming from?
Redbull is advising on developing Toro Rosso for the next season's chassis. No, if you write a bit more accurately, there is a high possibility that this season will introduce Red Bull 's secret technology that is winning while using the Renault engine. You can have much higher potential than McLaren.
Last edited by Snorked on Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Thunder18
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Re: Honda Power Unit

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MrPotatoHead wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:08 am
GhostF1 wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 3:21 am
carisi2k wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:35 am


Those good words seem to be about how well the spec 4 /2018 power unit fits into the torro rosso chassis and not about their relationship. It is safe to presume that the Honda engine has been running on the engine dyno and simulator at RBT since the Honda to Torro Rosso announcement and possibly even being backed to backed against the 2017 Renault.

I wish there was testing like the old days because not only would we have torro rosso running around with a honda engine already but Red Bull would most likely be testing the Honda engine as well with the expected break up at the end of 2018 with Renault. Honda would also have seen the issues with their 2017 engine much sooner and have been able to put into place solutions much sooner.
Put it this way, for the entirety of the 2018 season, RBR will have all the access in the world to Honda's progress and data, while also VERY likely giving Honda unprecedented access to their data from running the Renault.
People seem to forget that McLaren had Mercedes engines before Honda... if there was anything to be learned they already had access to information from the best engine in the field.
As pointed out by the real Ron Dennis, at the beginning of the McHonda effort. They had an engine with basic access. The hadn't got a lot of say in how to run it. Merc effectively packed them up after usages so there was not a lot of info gained from 2014.
https://adamcooperf1.com/2014/10/04/ron ... orks-team/

kptaylor
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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Yep, people forget that that as a customer you don't own the engine. There are manufacturer reps who handle engines and keep a close eye on them when they're not in their control. McLaren didn't get to open up the engines to study them (Mercs or Hondas) so there are only things like power levels, mapping, deployment strategies, etc that they would have knowledge of.

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Craigy
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Re: Honda Power Unit

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etusch wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:30 pm
MrPotatoHead wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:08 am
GhostF1 wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 3:21 am


Put it this way, for the entirety of the 2018 season, RBR will have all the access in the world to Honda's progress and data, while also VERY likely giving Honda unprecedented access to their data from running the Renault.
People seem to forget that McLaren had Mercedes engines before Honda... if there was anything to be learned they already had access to information from the best engine in the field.
If I am not wrong McLaren didn't use mercedes turbo engine
You are wrong.

McLaren Mercedes, 2014. -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McLaren_MP4-29

Please, please do BASIC research before you post nonsense. Thanks.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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dren wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:26 pm


All I can find on Asaki is that he was the Chief Engineer for the N-Box kei car line that Honda developed a few years ago. I'm a fan of the N-One:
Image
Does he have broads in Atlanta by any chance?

roon
roon
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Re: Honda Power Unit

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GhostF1 wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 3:21 am
carisi2k wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:35 am
MrPotatoHead wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2017 9:15 pm
Of course there are good words it's the start of a new partnership and that is what you do.
It's not like Honda all of a sudden has a new engine design that isn't a continuation of what they had in the McLAren this year.
But hopefully Honda will improve coming into the 2018 season.
Those good words seem to be about how well the spec 4 /2018 power unit fits into the torro rosso chassis and not about their relationship. It is safe to presume that the Honda engine has been running on the engine dyno and simulator at RBT since the Honda to Torro Rosso announcement and possibly even being backed to backed against the 2017 Renault.

I wish there was testing like the old days because not only would we have torro rosso running around with a honda engine already but Red Bull would most likely be testing the Honda engine as well with the expected break up at the end of 2018 with Renault. Honda would also have seen the issues with their 2017 engine much sooner and have been able to put into place solutions much sooner.
Put it this way, for the entirety of the 2018 season, RBR will have all the access in the world to Honda's progress and data, while also VERY likely giving Honda unprecedented access to their data from running the Renault.
Interesting situation. This is probably as close as a team can get to having two engine contracts for one season. If a customer team could sign two engine manufacturers in a season, this might ensure that they get factory-level support and performance.

GhostF1
GhostF1
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Re: Honda Power Unit

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roon wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:40 pm
GhostF1 wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 3:21 am
carisi2k wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:35 am


Those good words seem to be about how well the spec 4 /2018 power unit fits into the torro rosso chassis and not about their relationship. It is safe to presume that the Honda engine has been running on the engine dyno and simulator at RBT since the Honda to Torro Rosso announcement and possibly even being backed to backed against the 2017 Renault.

I wish there was testing like the old days because not only would we have torro rosso running around with a honda engine already but Red Bull would most likely be testing the Honda engine as well with the expected break up at the end of 2018 with Renault. Honda would also have seen the issues with their 2017 engine much sooner and have been able to put into place solutions much sooner.
Put it this way, for the entirety of the 2018 season, RBR will have all the access in the world to Honda's progress and data, while also VERY likely giving Honda unprecedented access to their data from running the Renault.
Interesting situation. This is probably as close as a team can get to having two engine contracts for one season. If a customer team could sign two engine manufacturers in a season, this might ensure that they get factory-level support and performance.
Precisely. I'm surprised at the amount of people implying there would be no advantage... I'm well aware that customer teams do not get access to the engines and they are shipped off by the manufacturers post race every time. HOWEVER. Red Bull would surely be feeding Honda so much information next year, including past season information.. their deployment strats, engine mode data, speed with exact downforce level information, fuel usage, any requests from Renault during the race etc etc. It is ALL useful to Honda one way or another, even if just to have an extremely accurate yardstick.

This sort of scenario could really only ever happen with RBR and STR.

Singabule
Singabule
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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Snorked wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 3:02 pm
dren wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:26 pm


All I can find on Asaki is that he was the Chief Engineer for the N-Box kei car line that Honda developed a few years ago. I'm a fan of the N-One:
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com ... -n-one.jpg

This Japanese car journalist say he was head of development at some point during Honda's F1 Phase 2:

Honda F1 next season, so far just positive news comes in. Of course, while strengthening the structure of the Japanese side (Sakura) is necessary, Mr. Asaki who was in charge of engine development in the second phase who won the responsibility


https://news.yahoo.co.jp/byline/kunisaw ... -00079210/

Also worked on the VTEC engine, he has several patents on Google.

Is this where this Red Bull / Newey rumour is coming from?
Redbull is advising on developing Toro Rosso for the next season's chassis. No, if you write a bit more accurately, there is a high possibility that this season will introduce Red Bull 's secret technology that is winning while using the Renault engine. You can have much higher potential than McLaren.
RBR secret is their aero, no secret then. RBR can manage airflow inside and outside chasis very well, i cant imagine how much their effort to create smooth Flow in their sidepod, radiator, and cooling exit

RonDennis
RonDennis
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Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:56 pm

Re: Honda Power Unit

Post

GhostF1 wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:19 am
roon wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:40 pm
GhostF1 wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 3:21 am


Put it this way, for the entirety of the 2018 season, RBR will have all the access in the world to Honda's progress and data, while also VERY likely giving Honda unprecedented access to their data from running the Renault.
Interesting situation. This is probably as close as a team can get to having two engine contracts for one season. If a customer team could sign two engine manufacturers in a season, this might ensure that they get factory-level support and performance.
Precisely. I'm surprised at the amount of people implying there would be no advantage... I'm well aware that customer teams do not get access to the engines and they are shipped off by the manufacturers post race every time. HOWEVER. Red Bull would surely be feeding Honda so much information next year, including past season information.. their deployment strats, engine mode data, speed with exact downforce level information, fuel usage, any requests from Renault during the race etc etc. It is ALL useful to Honda one way or another, even if just to have an extremely accurate yardstick.

This sort of scenario could really only ever happen with RBR and STR.
And that is going to help them how? It's not like that information isn't available to them now. The actual hard part is creating a powerful and efficient engine.

Fulcrum
Fulcrum
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:57 pm
dren wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:26 pm


All I can find on Asaki is that he was the Chief Engineer for the N-Box kei car line that Honda developed a few years ago. I'm a fan of the N-One:
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com ... -n-one.jpg
Does he have broads in Atlanta by any chance?
The license plate spells out how many podiums they've managed so far - none.

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dren
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Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:14 pm

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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Snorked wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 3:02 pm

This Japanese car journalist say he was head of development at some point during Honda's F1 Phase 2:
Honda F1 next season, so far just positive news comes in. Of course, while strengthening the structure of the Japanese side (Sakura) is necessary, Mr. Asaki who was in charge of engine development in the second phase who won the responsibility


https://news.yahoo.co.jp/byline/kunisaw ... -00079210/

Also worked on the VTEC engine, he has several patents on Google.
Thanks Snorked. I didn't stumble on that information. I wonder what they mean by 2nd phase. What time in the last three years was the 2nd phase? The 2nd year? Or was that the 2nd part of this past season?
Honda!

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loner
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Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2016 5:34 pm

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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godlameroso wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:31 pm
Honda will just use a super computer with engineer input and it'll design an engine. :)

This whole time they've just been feeding data into their AI, engine program.
yeah this singularity thing is gaining grounds , every time we say Mercedes will hit the ceiling they just keep
delivering more power iam skeptical it has to do with some sort of a super computer singularity :D
para bellum.

the EDGE
the EDGE
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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Thanks Snorked. I didn't stumble on that information. I wonder what they mean by 2nd phase. What time in the last three years was the 2nd phase? The 2nd year? Or was that the 2nd part of this past season?
I can’t read Japanese but perhaps the 2nd phase could be a bad translation of the 2nd time Honda entered into F1