General Honda F1 Topic

[Wazari]

Sorry, but you are wrong.
Even if 1% of men are interested in F1 these are the most active pro-auto part of population and will have much higher influence on buying decisions.
last 3 years of failures severely damaged Honda's image between F1 enthusiasts in Europe.
Much more than if there was no participation at all.

Well then, we will have to just agree to disagree as I believe nowhere near 1% of the total men living are interested in F1. Also being in the auto industry for over 40 years, I know race fans do not any more influence on auto buying decisions than other segments of the general population.

Honda's auto sales were 4.014 million units in 2013 with an increase each year since then to 5.028 million last year. So Honda's lack of success in F1 obviously did not hurt their car sales. The sales in the US were proportionate to worldwide increases. In 2015 there was a survey of 6,200 people that called themselves "Honda race fans" taken by an automobile publication in Japan. When asked how many of them actually owned a Honda product, it was less than 15%. Now motorcycle sales are a different story with racing have a big effect on future sales.

I think many race fans overestimate the commercial value of F1 in the consumer market. Ferrari is a poor example. They sell everything they produce because their total volume is so small. Being a Ferrari owner and having been around many other Ferrari owners over the several decades, I can tell they can care less if Ferrari races in F1 let alone if they win or not. It's the non Ferrari owners that are the Ferrari fanatics.

[ncassi22]

Sorry, but you are wrong.
Even if 1% of men are interested in F1 these are the most active pro-auto part of population and will have much higher influence on buying decisions.
last 3 years of failures severely damaged Honda's image between F1 enthusiasts in Europe.
Much more than if there was no participation at all.

While the number of F1 viewers exceed the number of people that actually buy cars by more than 4 times, I think it is more important for sports brands such as AMG and Ferrari than for Honda and Renault. The automakers that sell the most cars globally aren't even in F1. Soccer mom's and dads don't care about F1 when they buy minivans, neither do electric car buyers, or say someone that buys a pickup or a Civic. Merc(somewhat) and Ferrari don't even make cars in those classes. Honda's poor performance in Europe is due to other factors; their F1 performance being the least.

[Squid]

Honda road cars have a strong reputation of reliability built up by their road cars. This reputation hasn't taken even a slight dent from the F1 program. I drive a Honda and would buy a Honda any day, because they are solid cars that have never let me down. Contrary to what restless believes, normal people don't make car buying decisions based on motorsports.

[1158]

Honda road cars have a strong reputation of reliability built up by their road cars. This reputation hasn't taken even a slight dent from the F1 program. I drive a Honda and would buy a Honda any day, because they are solid cars that have never let me down. Contrary to what restless believes, normal people don't make car buying decisions based on motorsports.

You mean you haven't had an issue with the MGU-H?

I've had my Honda(well Acura but...) for almost 20 years now. The only issues I've had were self induced.

[restless]

To say that f1 fiasco didnt tarnish already not so good reputation in europe is disconnection from reality. Probably depends on age and peope around you. Foe people under 30 Honda is as good as non existant.

[Maritimer]

Honda have taken a bigger hit from their engine blocks cracking recently than the F1 program failing. Racing only matters to racing fans, the general population couldn't care less.

[HPD]

I have to admit that I was influenced by the Honda Racing F1 program. I have driven Honda Civic for 15 years.
Nor do I need to see Honda winning championships to buy me a car. Just watching them fight and compete hard is quite admirable, where are the other brands of cars?

[dren]

To say that f1 fiasco didnt tarnish already not so good reputation in europe is disconnection from reality. Probably depends on age and peope around you. Foe people under 30 Honda is as good as non existant.

Honda's European woes have nothing to do with their racing program.

[ncassi22]

To say that f1 fiasco didnt tarnish already not so good reputation in europe is disconnection from reality. Probably depends on age and peope around you. Foe people under 30 Honda is as good as non existant.

Honda's European woes have nothing to do with their racing program.

Agreed. Their problem is twofold imo. Lackluster products and Europe's blind eye to diesel cheating (To the point that air quality has been much worse than predictive models suggest they should be). I think since 2014 diesel was more than 50% of European car sales. On the model front the current Jazz/fit can't compete against the popular offerings from ford/PSA/renault/VW etc (with the Korean offerings maybe not as stylish, but better value). The new Civic hatch hits all the marks yet is ugly and too big for its class as it's essentially based on an American car. The new CRV is good, probably best in class however now you're getting into the price range of premium European brands where status plays a bigger role (Sales only started Dec 17 or Jan 08 so we'll see). Honda hybrids atm are non existent in Europe thanks to the poor performance of the absolutely terrible CRZ and Insight. Again a legacy of decisions taken by both Fukui and Ito between 2008 to 2015. Honda's only now starting to get their act together and hopefully they'll be brave enough to release products based on market want and not on past performance of poorly designed products. Alot (I think) hinges on the next gen Jazz/Fit, HRV(currently with middling powertrains and dynamics), Insight(which looks promising) as well as the design/quality of Acura's future products, as at the moment they have nothing in that sector and I'm sure they'll only intro Acura in Europe if a large part of their product portfolio are at the level of the new RDX (which is nice)... Also Europe's reaction to diesel cheating (If they ignore it Honda has a stonking twin turbo diesel for the CRV at least). 2016 actually saw a European sales growth for the first time since 2007.

[roon]

It's not a win at all cost philosophy although that's what many things may want or think.

Were McLaren aware of this?

[Wazari]

It's not a win at all cost philosophy although that's what many things may want or think.

Were McLaren aware of this?

Of course. Even McLaren themselves spent nowhere near Mercedes, Ferrari or Redbull on the car alone. Everyone has a predetermined budget going into a season.

[TommyF1]

ad "Honda's European woes have nothing to do with their racing program."

Well, I canceled my CR-V order and bought a BMW X1 instead - because of the Honda F1 participation. I know 2 other guys, who did more or less the same - canceled Honda orders because of their performance.
I would not go as far as to say this is the major problem they are facing - but it is not nonexistent either.

[63l8qrrfy6]

Well that's silly, BMW did quite badly in F1 too. Why not get a merc or a renault then ?

The way I see it people that are into F1 know that the racing cars have nothing to do with road cars while people that aren't into F1.. well they don't know that Honda are struggling.

Having said that I too decided for an M2 rather than a type R but just because I managed to stretch my budget a bit. I did not care for what happened in F1 at all.

[Squid]

ad "Honda's European woes have nothing to do with their racing program."

Well, I canceled my CR-V order and bought a BMW X1 instead - because of the Honda F1 participation. I know 2 other guys, who did more or less the same - canceled Honda orders because of their performance.
I would not go as far as to say this is the major problem they are facing - but it is not nonexistent either.

We're not saying that nobody gave up on buying a Honda because of their F1 performance. We're saying is that it's a silly thing to base a car buying decision on, the amount of people who do it is negligible and it's far from being any concern to Honda.

[Nonserviam85]

Sorry, but you are wrong.
Even if 1% of men are interested in F1 these are the most active pro-auto part of population and will have much higher influence on buying decisions.
last 3 years of failures severely damaged Honda's image between F1 enthusiasts in Europe.
Much more than if there was no participation at all.

I think many race fans overestimate the commercial value of F1 in the consumer market. Ferrari is a poor example. They sell everything they produce because their total volume is so small. Being a Ferrari owner and having been around many other Ferrari owners over the several decades, I can tell they can care less if Ferrari races in F1 let alone if they win or not. It's the non Ferrari owners that are the Ferrari fanatics.

This is so true...Do you know many people that will prefer an AMG sportscar than a Ferrari, a McLaren or even a Porsche?