General Honda F1 Topic

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
etusch
87
User avatar
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 10:09 pm
Location: Turkey

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by etusch » Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:16 am

I think it is hardware but small changes. I think mapping is inevitable job from race to race.

Stef
5
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2008 10:25 pm

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by Stef » Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:25 am

Maybe they just found out the PU is more reliable then first thought.

They could just turn it up a bit and gain power.

DutchDopey
0
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2018 8:54 pm

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by DutchDopey » Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:47 am

Snorked wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:02 am
Reading the Google translated comments for this interview, it seems the 20 bhp next race came from the Honda vice president?

https://members.f1-life.net/race/81677/
It could be that Honda has been hurt by the F1 reliability so much that they are very conservative with the PU settings. Now that the PU seems reliable they got upper management approval to turn op the engine. They probably have enough data to do it with low risk. This would also make sense in how it is communicated; Marko saying they get '20hp' extra from Honda as some sort of present.

yener
6
User avatar
Joined: Sun May 08, 2011 11:00 pm

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by yener » Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:55 am

The engine is fine. The powergap between Ferrari/Mercedes and Honda is smaller compared with last years Renault engine. But more power will not solve the "twitchy rear". It's like the mercedes W01 -W03. That car was also a dog in slow and highspeed corners.
Alonso: All the time you have to keep the space!

ispano6
105
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:56 pm
Location: my armchair

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by ispano6 » Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:54 pm

Kvyat PU issues might be due to turning the wick up to see what happens. He topped the top speed charts during that FP2 session. Sakura team will need to ascertain the nature of the failure but there likely won't be any stop gap measures until Spain, unless Honda has a fix that doesn't require restricted elements changes.

HondaPOD
13
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:38 am

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by HondaPOD » Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:19 pm

ispano6 wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:54 pm
Kvyat PU issues might be due to turning the wick up to see what happens. He topped the top speed charts during that FP2 session. Sakura team will need to ascertain the nature of the failure but there likely won't be any stop gap measures until Spain, unless Honda has a fix that doesn't require restricted elements changes.
I don't think so, bacause Kvyat used a new PU in FP2 and the honda issue occured during FP1.

ispano6
105
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:56 pm
Location: my armchair

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by ispano6 » Thu Apr 18, 2019 11:37 pm

HondaPOD wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:19 pm
ispano6 wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:54 pm
Kvyat PU issues might be due to turning the wick up to see what happens. He topped the top speed charts during that FP2 session. Sakura team will need to ascertain the nature of the failure but there likely won't be any stop gap measures until Spain, unless Honda has a fix that doesn't require restricted elements changes.
I don't think so, bacause Kvyat used a new PU in FP2 and the honda issue occured during FP1.
Thanks, so maybe that explains his top speed in FP2 and Albon's dicing through the midfield. Fresher PUs or maybe even some slightly tweaked differences from the previous. Knowing Honda if they are going to resort to a PU change then they would take the opportunity to bring in a newer spec or version, regardless how small or unrecognizable it may be. It's also entirely likely it's an identical unit.

ispano6
105
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:56 pm
Location: my armchair

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by ispano6 » Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:40 pm

atanatizante wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:35 am
Seems they will shift towards solid-state technology battery now which is a good step forward ...
Now whether is lithium-ion or another tech it has to be seen ...

https://twitter.com/MercedesBenz/status ... 6390293504
This is an interesting development from MB. Very eager to see Honda's carbon nanotube R&D put to use and recent latest battery tech. Will we see sodium and fluoride-ion batteries in F1 soon?

https://www.thedrive.com/tech/25354/hon ... -operation

https://www.motor1.com/news/18054/honda ... velopment/

Zynerji
62
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:14 pm

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by Zynerji » Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:36 pm

ispano6 wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:40 pm
atanatizante wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:35 am
Seems they will shift towards solid-state technology battery now which is a good step forward ...
Now whether is lithium-ion or another tech it has to be seen ...

https://twitter.com/MercedesBenz/status ... 6390293504
This is an interesting development from MB. Very eager to see Honda's carbon nanotube R&D put to use and recent latest battery tech. Will we see sodium and fluoride-ion batteries in F1 soon?

https://www.thedrive.com/tech/25354/hon ... -operation

https://www.motor1.com/news/18054/honda ... velopment/
Are the teams using wet cell technology currently?

I know Wayne Pickette (of Intel fame) is working on a technology that holds an electrolyte liquid in the matrix of a hydroscopic-like ceramic core for EV batteries. I was expecting that we were moving from solid-state 18650 cells to a higher density wet cell.

Would love to learn more.

ispano6
105
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:56 pm
Location: my armchair

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by ispano6 » Sat Apr 20, 2019 6:47 am

Zynerji wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:36 pm
ispano6 wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:40 pm
atanatizante wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:35 am
Seems they will shift towards solid-state technology battery now which is a good step forward ...
Now whether is lithium-ion or another tech it has to be seen ...

https://twitter.com/MercedesBenz/status ... 6390293504
This is an interesting development from MB. Very eager to see Honda's carbon nanotube R&D put to use and recent latest battery tech. Will we see sodium and fluoride-ion batteries in F1 soon?

https://www.thedrive.com/tech/25354/hon ... -operation

https://www.motor1.com/news/18054/honda ... velopment/
Are the teams using wet cell technology currently?

I know Wayne Pickette (of Intel fame) is working on a technology that holds an electrolyte liquid in the matrix of a hydroscopic-like ceramic core for EV batteries. I was expecting that we were moving from solid-state 18650 cells to a higher density wet cell.

Would love to learn more.
That sounds similar to MIT's flow battery technology from a few years back. Personally, I feel the flow battery concept is genius for production vehicles in that you could likely leverage existing gasoline station and tank infrastructure simply replacing petrol with electrolyte fluid, reducing charge times and reducing the need of chargers. But for Formula 1, Honda's fluoride-ion innovation is intriguing given that solid state batteries require high operating temperatures. The development gains to be had now reside in the realm of the ERS and ES and it will be interesting to see if being in other categories like WEC, Formula E and Super GT will give manufacturers an edge in development.

gandharva
216
User avatar
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 2:19 pm
Location: Munich

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by gandharva » Sat Apr 20, 2019 10:52 am

ispano6 wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:40 pm
atanatizante wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:35 am
Seems they will shift towards solid-state technology battery now which is a good step forward ...
Now whether is lithium-ion or another tech it has to be seen ...

https://twitter.com/MercedesBenz/status ... 6390293504
This is an interesting development from MB. Very eager to see Honda's carbon nanotube R&D put to use and recent latest battery tech. Will we see sodium and fluoride-ion batteries in F1 soon?

https://www.thedrive.com/tech/25354/hon ... -operation

https://www.motor1.com/news/18054/honda ... velopment/
This all is completely irrelevant to F1 at least up to the point of upcoming regulation changes. Probably even longer. This will be used in road cars and MB absolutely needs those 20% improvement to close the gap to Tesla/Panasonic. Tesla/Panasonic is years ahead of everyone when it comes to road car battery technology.

kptaylor
7
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:11 pm
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by kptaylor » Sat Apr 20, 2019 4:01 pm

Apologize as I haven't read through the regs, but is battery technology open or are there rules in place regarding material and composition? Could these newer technologies be put in place by Honda only during testing days or in races?

ispano6
105
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:56 pm
Location: my armchair

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by ispano6 » Sat Apr 20, 2019 4:02 pm

gandharva wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 10:52 am
ispano6 wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:40 pm
atanatizante wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:35 am
Seems they will shift towards solid-state technology battery now which is a good step forward ...
Now whether is lithium-ion or another tech it has to be seen ...

https://twitter.com/MercedesBenz/status ... 6390293504
This is an interesting development from MB. Very eager to see Honda's carbon nanotube R&D put to use and recent latest battery tech. Will we see sodium and fluoride-ion batteries in F1 soon?

https://www.thedrive.com/tech/25354/hon ... -operation

https://www.motor1.com/news/18054/honda ... velopment/
This all is completely irrelevant to F1 at least up to the point of upcoming regulation changes. Probably even longer. This will be used in road cars and MB absolutely needs those 20% improvement to close the gap to Tesla/Panasonic. Tesla/Panasonic is years ahead of everyone when it comes to road car battery technology.
So you are saying ERS and ES hardware is dictated by Formula 1 and theres no area for R&D gains in this department until next regulation change?

gandharva
216
User avatar
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 2:19 pm
Location: Munich

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by gandharva » Sat Apr 20, 2019 6:05 pm

kptaylor wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 4:01 pm
Apologize as I haven't read through the regs, but is battery technology open or are there rules in place regarding material and composition? Could these newer technologies be put in place by Honda only during testing days or in races?
This "newer" technology (MB announcement) is not even state of the art. So why bother using it? Furthermore, the requirements for road cars are very different from Formula 1.

Marti_EF3
185
User avatar
Joined: Mon May 29, 2017 11:45 pm
Location: Spain

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by Marti_EF3 » Sun Apr 21, 2019 7:59 pm

Some media are reporting that the Honda upgrade will be more agressive maps, focused more on Qualifying modes, and a few more agressive maps for race.

Here from a Spanish site

https://soymotor.com/noticias/red-bull- ... yan-963007