General Honda F1 Topic

[Espresso]

Mclaren Honda contract was effective for 10 years it was a long term deal that didn't work out.Mclaren wanted out as soon as 2017 winter testing when the engine was breaking down oil leaks and faulty oil tank. Why would Mclaren be paying Honda for breaking contact if Honda wanted out or why was Hasegawa so keen to salvage to the deal . The Str & Rbr are not a factor as they have always enquired about the Honda pu even in 2015 when they were terrible.i think resent news are just bs they seem opportune because Honda are now winning someone feels like gloating

I think this is your own personal opinion and the way you see it. You're entitled to that.
But please don't bring personal opinion as facts.
(and please don't assume it was me rating you down... )

If I'm wrong mea culpa.
- Otherwise could you give us a source for that 10 year?
- And a source for Hasegawa trying to salvage the deal?

Honda never said it wanted out, it was clear Honda was surprisingly very very quite....and when Japanese get quite they move from strategy to tactics....
(As Tost has lived in Japan, so did I, so I can interpretate the japanese way a tiny little bit)

Oil leaks and faulty tanks are in my view due to MCL dictating engine development into a size zero superior chassis and limiting Honda to test the engine in a mock-up as MCL kept that the (w)holy grail forbidden for outsiders...even Honda. MCL just saw Honda as an off-the-shelve engine supplier and 'secret' sponsor.
Just the way they treated Honda was a very bad joke.

And the reason Honda didn't supply another team was the McLaren veto...

In short....the writer of the article is not gloating as the writer has nothing to do with any racing team.
And for me I just made an interpretation from Spanish into English.

If you poker, you win some and you loose some.
MCL won the first few Hands. Honda in, Ron Dennis out....but lost the last hand. They played hard ball and it recoiled. The way Honda communicated it, it looked like that if MCL pulled out of F1 Honda would also do so.

In the end it was lucky for all parties involved that MCL lost out. MCL found out the hard way it was (also) they (their chassis) that was (also) at fault (as they could one-on-one compare themselves to Red Bull).

This gave MCL the opportunity to correct it. And they grabbed this with both hands. Kudos to that.
And as you can see MCL is back on the rise.

Maybe in 10-20 years time the whole story will surface in someone memoires. I'm looking forward to reading this chapter in F1 history.

As of now back to the resurgence of Honda. As this is and will stay the Honda topic
A new era. Released from their leashes with the freedom to develop, evolve and make mistakes. Working together as a team you can clearly see this is already more then beneficial for all those involved.

[63l8qrrfy6]

That's a bit of an archaic summary is it not? Might of been an old Ford plant, but hasn't it been massively upgraded recently, they made a decent noise about the scale? I don't think there is much leftover from the old Ford owned era regarding parts used. The new 5.2 had no outside consultancies as far as I'm aware and the fact they are making a high end mild hybrid engine for their upcoming models due within the next 2 years would suggest the opposite, which they are also claiming is a complete in house design. They had substantial years of growth after leaving Ford and are active and relatively successful in quite a few sport car series as well, they've done as well as could be hoped for their size.

As for the share loss, it isn't surprising, it seems like they are spending a lot of money revamping their entire range while also dealing with a large downturn in sales across Europe and the US, which is also not limited to them, a large number of car manufacturers are posting a big loss, even those who have had years of growth, look at Subaru, one of the few with huge sales growth year on year until recently, even Mercedes as well, another big loss posting.

I don't think it's being disrespectful, they said they'd prefer Honda to remain because their manpower and money far surpassed their own but they have to show face early to stop the rumours which were surely coming with 18 months left of the current contract and besides, Aston have shown interest in joining for a number of years now, they hired Luca Marmorini (ex-Ferrari F1 engine boss up to 2015) to research viability and actually, I believe they've performed several single cylinder tests on the dyno with their own design (Porsche did the same), there are articles floating about. And look, Honda are playing the same game, they have board members literally saying their future involvement isn't confirmed, which isn't exactly confidence inspiring to AMRBR. it could be a tactic to coax Honda to stay but honestly, it's likely a public stunt to curb rumours before they start

I know that they claimed to have fully designed the new 5.2 in house but that is not even remotely true.

The thing is in and around Northamptonshire there are several important engine consultancies/manufacturers - Mahle (2 of them), Cosworth, Mercedes, Jaguar, Ilmor, RML, Integral Powertrain, etc. Even though it is a relatively large industry, everyone knows everyone else since many of the engineers including myself have worked for at least a couple of these companies. AM have technical centres in Gaydon and Wellesbourne and I have not heard of anyone doing proper engine design at either.I know that even before the hypercar engine Cosworth was heavily involved with their 5.2 engine and I believe they were also using some of the well established german consultancies.

Last year there was a bit of a buzz created by rumors that Aston Martin were looking to create an engine department and they even started advertising several engine-related engineering vacancies (mostly either CAD contracts or project management but also a few juicier roles for team leaders and department heads). This normally means very lucrative opportunities for most of the people in the industry, however this time it was a complete let-down as few of the guys I know went for interviews only to find out that most of the jobs involved dealing with engine integration/ancillaries and the pay packages were some of the worst in the area. Actually we still have running jokes about AM "exhaust cold end engineers"...

As far as running a single cylinder on the dyno - you are probably mistaking them for Porsche who did claim to have ran something. As far as I can tell AM only have production pass-off dynos and unless Cosworth designed a single cylinder for them I highly doubt they could have made anything themselves.

I know it seems that I have an axe to grind with them but really I'm just triggered by some of their claims. I've been going on and on about this on the forum ever since they started to talk about their interest in F1. I know that no one within the industry took them seriously and now they are at it again suggesting they could step in for Honda (in whatever quality that may be). I reckon they would need to drag in Cosworth and at least another party to be able to match what Honda has achieve in F1 since their return.

[Pyrone89]

That's a bit of an archaic summary is it not? Might of been an old Ford plant, but hasn't it been massively upgraded recently, they made a decent noise about the scale? I don't think there is much leftover from the old Ford owned era regarding parts used. The new 5.2 had no outside consultancies as far as I'm aware and the fact they are making a high end mild hybrid engine for their upcoming models due within the next 2 years would suggest the opposite, which they are also claiming is a complete in house design. They had substantial years of growth after leaving Ford and are active and relatively successful in quite a few sport car series as well, they've done as well as could be hoped for their size.

As for the share loss, it isn't surprising, it seems like they are spending a lot of money revamping their entire range while also dealing with a large downturn in sales across Europe and the US, which is also not limited to them, a large number of car manufacturers are posting a big loss, even those who have had years of growth, look at Subaru, one of the few with huge sales growth year on year until recently, even Mercedes as well, another big loss posting.

I don't think it's being disrespectful, they said they'd prefer Honda to remain because their manpower and money far surpassed their own but they have to show face early to stop the rumours which were surely coming with 18 months left of the current contract and besides, Aston have shown interest in joining for a number of years now, they hired Luca Marmorini (ex-Ferrari F1 engine boss up to 2015) to research viability and actually, I believe they've performed several single cylinder tests on the dyno with their own design (Porsche did the same), there are articles floating about. And look, Honda are playing the same game, they have board members literally saying their future involvement isn't confirmed, which isn't exactly confidence inspiring to AMRBR. it could be a tactic to coax Honda to stay but honestly, it's likely a public stunt to curb rumours before they start

I know that they claimed to have fully designed the new 5.2 in house but that is not even remotely true.

The thing is in and around Northamptonshire there are several important engine consultancies/manufacturers - Mahle (2 of them), Cosworth, Mercedes, Jaguar, Ilmor, RML, Integral Powertrain, etc. Even though it is a relatively large industry, everyone knows everyone else since many of the engineers including myself have worked for at least a couple of these companies. AM have technical centres in Gaydon and Wellesbourne and I have not heard of anyone doing proper engine design at either.I know that even before the hypercar engine Cosworth was heavily involved with their 5.2 engine and I believe they were also using some of the well established german consultancies.

Last year there was a bit of a buzz created by rumors that Aston Martin were looking to create an engine department and they even started advertising several engine-related engineering vacancies (mostly either CAD contracts or project management but also a few juicier roles for team leaders and department heads). This normally means very lucrative opportunities for most of the people in the industry, however this time it was a complete let-down as few of the guys I know went for interviews only to find out that most of the jobs involved dealing with engine integration/ancillaries and the pay packages were some of the worst in the area. Actually we still have running jokes about AM "exhaust cold end engineers"...

As far as running a single cylinder on the dyno - you are probably mistaking them for Porsche who did claim to have ran something. As far as I can tell AM only have production pass-off dynos and unless Cosworth designed a single cylinder for them I highly doubt they could have made anything themselves.

I know it seems that I have an axe to grind with them but really I'm just triggered by some of their claims. I've been going on and on about this on the forum ever since they started to talk about their interest in F1. I know that no one within the industry took them seriously and now they are at it again suggesting they could step in for Honda (in whatever quality that may be). I reckon they would need to drag in Cosworth and at least another party to be able to match what Honda has achieve in F1 since their return.

Interesting read Mudflap.

What is the consensus amongst people of your background on how big of a powerhouse Honda is compared to Mercedes when it comes to knowledge, resources, talent, effort etc? We know Renault Sport in Viry is trying to do F1 halfbaked with low budget also because of shareholder demands (French state). Mercedes is clearly putting all they can in, but I still find it hard to compare Honda with them and you as an insider in the industry might know more.

[63l8qrrfy6]

I don't know, sorry. They seem to be throwing everything at it at it seems to pay off, but I suppose anyone could have told you that

[Pyrone89]

I don't know, sorry. They seem to be throwing everything at it at it seems to pay off, but I suppose anyone could have told you that

Ok, because you talked about Merc in your post I thought maybe you had some info on Honda’s reputation in the engine branch.

[lio007]

This is f**** awesome!!!
https://twitter.com/HondaRacingF1/statu ... 1721300992

And for sure that:
https://twitter.com/HondaRacingF1/statu ... 6542303232

[ispano6]

Nice win on Mercedes home turf!!! Awesome double podium!!!

2 down...

[Singabule]

This is f**** awesome!!!
https://twitter.com/HondaRacingF1/statu ... 1721300992

And for sure that:
https://twitter.com/HondaRacingF1/statu ... 6542303232

Hahaha savage, this would seal Alonso tumor forever!

Autocorrect: rumor not tumor

[flexcon]

This is f**** awesome!!!
https://twitter.com/HondaRacingF1/statu ... 1721300992

And for sure that:
https://twitter.com/HondaRacingF1/statu ... 6542303232

hah. Maybe not so much an Autocorrect as a lovely dig to Fernando. That's a GP2 engine winning.

Maybe.

[lio007]

This is f**** awesome!!!
https://twitter.com/HondaRacingF1/statu ... 1721300992

And for sure that:
https://twitter.com/HondaRacingF1/statu ... 6542303232

hah. Maybe not so much an Autocorrect as a lovely dig to Fernando. That's a GP2 engine winning.

Maybe.

That's been for certain not an autocorrect issue!!

[Wouter]

CONGRATULATIONS to HONDA. 1st Max, 3st Daniil, 6st Alex !!

https://twitter.com/ToroRosso/status/11 ... 0289620993

[KelsO]

I'm really happy. From the beginning of this season, I imagined that maybe at one of the races I would see Max as the winner and Kvyat on the podium at the same time, it was fantasy, and now I see it in reality. This is magic, it exists.

P.S. the rain race made it possible to save the motor resource, perhaps it will give the opportunity to attack in Hungary more.

[Sieper]

Toro Rosso passed Renault in the WCC today.

[Hino]

Is this the first time Red Bull/STR have been on the podium at the same time?

[Stef]

Yep, and it is the only 2nd podium for STR