General Honda F1 Topic

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
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etusch
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Sometimes money spoilts
According to the German Auto Bild, Liberty Media wants Ferrari to sign up with Lewis Hamilton and Fernando Alonso to take over the vacant Mercedes seat

Helmut Marko, adviser to Red Bull's team recently, said that Liberty Media offered themselves Fernando Alonso, but they turned it down, especially because of Honda.

Marko even called Liberty "Alonso's" manager.

https://tr.motorsport.com/f1/news/liber ... 13362/amp/

Bill
Bill
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So liberty wants Vettel out of f1 is not like Alonso has lots of fans most dislikes him

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Jambier
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I've read that liberty pushed for Alonso when they were trying to replace GASLY isn't it ?
It is understandable, even now with 1 year out, Alonso is quite often on the discussion.

But it is a bit off topic here

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etusch
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It is just obvious that F1 is loosing watchabelity very fast. At past we were discussing about pay drivers that it was bad for talented ones and sport. Now there is another affect trying to shape sport for more money and more audience but not by making it an exiting to watch, a true sport.

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Jambier
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For 2020 Tanabe declared that it will be more difficult to have gains as they had this year.
Especially without compromising relaibility.

With on the other hand Mercedes and Ferrari promising big gains, I'm a bit afraid that 2020 will be a tough year for Honda.

I'm wondering if they will continue their 4 SPEC a year policy, or try to be on level with other respecting the 3 engine per year ratio.

I mean, they have to test under real conditions that they can do a year with 3 engine, if they want to be world champion in 2021

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Wouter
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Jambier wrote:
Wed Dec 18, 2019 11:18 am
For 2020 Tanabe declared that it will be more difficult to have gains as they had this year.
Especially without compromising relaibility.

He did not say that.
Tanabe: "I think it's harder than previous years. We need to be precise in every single area, in terms of hardware, also software and then trackside management as well. So, we keep pushing. The PU means the ICE, MGU-H and K, and all the systems, water and oil. Also tools, software, we have a lot of things to do. But a big step? Maybe that's getting difficult."


With on the other hand Mercedes and Ferrari promising big gains, They did not. I'm a bit afraid that 2020 will be a tough year for Honda. Based on what??

I mean, they have to test under real conditions that they can do a year with 3 engine, if they want to be world champion in 2021. With 4 engines they can also be WC. Hamilton would have WC with 5 engines this year.:-)

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Mercedes didn't find any big gains in 2019 quite frankly they didn't find any gains in horsepower terms in 2019 so why should they find it in 2020 .the myth is they would be overhauling their engine in 2020 but that gets reported every year. Ferrari will do what Ferrari always does which is inspire a lot of questions marks around their pu

Honda would do just fine their technical director asaki already said they are still gains to be found with their pu . Their combustion technology is only 3 years old while there rivals version has reached maturity.

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etusch
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Jambier wrote:
Wed Dec 18, 2019 11:18 am
For 2020 Tanabe declared that it will be more difficult to have gains as they had this year.
Especially without compromising relaibility.

With on the other hand Mercedes and Ferrari promising big gains, I'm a bit afraid that 2020 will be a tough year for Honda.

I'm wondering if they will continue their 4 SPEC a year policy, or try to be on level with other respecting the 3 engine per year ratio.

I mean, they have to test under real conditions that they can do a year with 3 engine, if they want to be world champion in 2021
It is what we were talking about. So there is nothing new in it.
After some point, maybe, gain will come from a line of code istead of hp or an extra 2 hp gain against rival who just stayed where it is. Or some trick just keeps pu its best performing area for longer period of race

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Big Tea
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etusch wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 1:45 pm
It is just obvious that F1 is loosing watchabelity very fast. At past we were discussing about pay drivers that it was bad for talented ones and sport. Now there is another affect trying to shape sport for more money and more audience but not by making it an exiting to watch, a true sport.
I think the biggest hit to watchability is that only those seriously into F1 now watch it. You do no tchat about it in the local because now perhaps 2 of your group of 6 have it. The others are completely unconscious of what you say.
A 10 min chat is not a 5 second remark and a 5 second reply from one person.


(edit, not intended as an anti paywall rant, but the point stands)
We are standing on the shoulders of Giants. So don't kick.

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etusch
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Big Tea wrote:
Wed Dec 18, 2019 5:00 pm
etusch wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 1:45 pm
It is just obvious that F1 is loosing watchabelity very fast. At past we were discussing about pay drivers that it was bad for talented ones and sport. Now there is another affect trying to shape sport for more money and more audience but not by making it an exiting to watch, a true sport.
I think the biggest hit to watchability is that only those seriously into F1 now watch it. You do no tchat about it in the local because now perhaps 2 of your group of 6 have it. The others are completely unconscious of what you say.
A 10 min chat is not a 5 second remark and a 5 second reply from one person.


(edit, not intended as an anti paywall rant, but the point stands)
Finding F1 fans is hard around here and harder to find someone who has good knowledge about it. But my point is not that. I satisfy my needs here by talking with and reading from this forumers

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Marti_EF3
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Honda wanted to start 2019 F1 season with Spec 2 engine
The Japanese manufacturer claimed its first podium of the V6 turbo-hybrid era on its debut with Red Bull at the season-opening grand prix, and would go on to end a 13-year win drought in F1 in a season it claimed three victories.

It introduced three engine upgrades during the course of the year, one more than its rivals, and the Spec 2 that made its debut in Azerbaijan was originally envisioned as the season-starting engine.

However, Honda revised its schedule based on what was realistic long before the campaign started, rather than needing a last-minute change.

"For the power unit development we have a list, and priorities," Honda's F1 technical director Toyoharu Tanabe told Motorsport.com.

"How long does it take? How much we can gain in terms of performance also in reliability? Some items take longer, but the step is big. So we just apply [the upgrades] based on that schedule.

"We had a little bit of a delay for the Spec 2 introduction. We wanted to start with Spec 2. It's just a result of the PU development [schedule]."

Committing to its revised schedule allowed Honda to spend the winter preparing its uprated 2019 engine for Australia with the knowledge that a stream of upgrades would come in the first half of the year.

Its upgrades started with the reliability-focused Spec 2 in Azerbaijan, a performance-enhancing Spec 3 with a new turbocharger in France and then the Spec 4 – its biggest step of all – after the summer break.


"During this season we started with the Spec 1, and the step to Spec 2 is minor," said Tanabe. "Then we stepped up to Spec 3, a bigger step than Spec 1 to Spec 2.

"And then Spec 4 was bigger than Spec 2 to Spec 3.

"We are happy to introduce our PU as we promised with the team and drivers, it was almost the same step we could make during the season that we told the team.

"From the trackside point of view, as a technical director at the trackside, I'm so happy with that power unit progress."

Honda has been evolving its engine design year-on-year since a big overhaul over the winter from 2016 to 2017 and intends to keep its engine concept "very similar" for 2020.

The company's F1 managing director Masashi Yamamoto told Motorsport.com that Red Bull helped facilitate Honda hitting its targets this year.

"From Spec 1 to Spec 4, everything went smoothly on schedule, as planned," he said.

"We can say that with Red Bull, a good team, and Max Verstappen, a very good driver who gives us very good feedback, they have powered our development and made it smoother to proceed."
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/hond ... e/4614148/

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Jambier
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That SPEC 4 really was a big big success.

Now I hope they can still make progress after this one for 2020, as always in F1, it would have change the championship if they had started 2019 with this SPEC 4

It is hard to run faster than time

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etusch
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As it can be understood of Marco's speach engine was almost same level with Mercedes and next year, I think/he thinks that they will be at least same level with rivals as operation and power wise.
It is all up to chassis now and I hope and trust that redbull are the team to achieve that.

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_cerber1
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Red Bull pilot Max Verstappen believes that in terms of power, the Honda engine is still inferior to the Ferrari and Mercedes engines.

“This year, the reliability of the Honda engine was at a high level, because we practically did not have any gatherings related to the power unit,” says Verstappen. - For a Japanese company, this is a big breakthrough. What did we miss? Power. We need more power, and I hope that in 2020 we will get it. ”

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Capharol
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_cerber1 wrote:
Thu Dec 19, 2019 8:41 am
Red Bull pilot Max Verstappen believes that in terms of power, the Honda engine is still inferior to the Ferrari and Mercedes engines.

“This year, the reliability of the Honda engine was at a high level, because we practically did not have any gatherings related to the power unit,” says Verstappen. - For a Japanese company, this is a big breakthrough. What did we miss? Power. We need more power, and I hope that in 2020 we will get it. ”
He told as well that the chassis needs to be good
Strive for continuous improvement, instead of perfection.
"Most people seem to turn off their brain when they turn on the computer and log in to social media."