General Honda F1 Topic

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
User avatar
Wouter
385
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:02 pm

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post

Hino wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 9:24 pm
Wouter wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 2:18 pm
Snorked wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 1:36 pm
I don't know, these are Google translated user comments:
"After all, ExxonMobil did not do anything"
"HONDA was giving Esso instructions on the fuel components."
.
I have no idea who those people are, who say such things, but it really doesn't make any sense at all.
ExxonMobil develops a fuel that belongs to the specifications of a certain engine.
Honda really does not do that itself, they have ExxonMobil for that.
.
@Wouter IIRC, A fuel compound from Honda's aviation department used with their jet engines was introduced to Exxon/Mobil via Honda F1. So it took awhile for Mobil to get the formula right.

https://www.speedweek.com/formel1/news/ ... Mobil.html
Thank you @Hino. I'm going to read it tomorrow. Fortunately I understand the German language,
because Google itranslate is :cry: :) .
I'll come back to this tomorrow.

lio007
lio007
319
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:03 pm
Location: Austria

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post

Hino wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 9:24 pm
Wouter wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 2:18 pm
Snorked wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 1:36 pm
I don't know, these are Google translated user comments:

"After all, ExxonMobil did not do anything"

"HONDA was giving Esso instructions on the fuel components."
I have no idea who those people are, who say such things, but it really doesn't make any sense at all.
ExxonMobil develops a fuel that belongs to the specifications of a certain engine.
Honda really does not do that itself, they have ExxonMobil for that.
@Wouter IIRC, A fuel compound from Honda's aviation department used with their jet engines was introduced to Exxon/Mobil via Honda F1. So it took awhile for Mobil to get the formula right.

https://www.speedweek.com/formel1/news/ ... Mobil.html
I'm afraid in the link you've posted is nothing about the aviation department.
The most relevant parts:
Exxon is very happy with the Honda collaboration, in the past they had to wait quite long to test new fuels on the Renault- dynos. Now, when new combustion concepts are in development and Exxon has therefore some new blends to test, only hours later it's on the dynos in Sakura.

A big part of the article is about track operations.

GhostF1
GhostF1
197
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2016 3:11 am

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post

Hino wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 9:24 pm
Wouter wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 2:18 pm
Snorked wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 1:36 pm
I don't know, these are Google translated user comments:

"After all, ExxonMobil did not do anything"

"HONDA was giving Esso instructions on the fuel components."
I have no idea who those people are, who say such things, but it really doesn't make any sense at all.
ExxonMobil develops a fuel that belongs to the specifications of a certain engine.
Honda really does not do that itself, they have ExxonMobil for that.
@Wouter IIRC, A fuel compound from Honda's aviation department used with their jet engines was introduced to Exxon/Mobil via Honda F1. So it took awhile for Mobil to get the formula right.

https://www.speedweek.com/formel1/news/ ... Mobil.html
Some part of this may be true. Exxon do say they are using compounds in a mix they have never before seen or developed for a race fuel, hence it took a little longer to develop, but they are reaping the rewards now. It's possible Honda's HGRX division provided some assistance there.

User avatar
Wouter
385
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:02 pm

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post

Hino wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 9:24 pm
Wouter wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 2:18 pm
Snorked wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 1:36 pm
I don't know, these are Google translated user comments:
"After all, ExxonMobil did not do anything"
"HONDA was giving Esso instructions on the fuel components."
.
I have no idea who those people are, who say such things, but it really doesn't make any sense at all.
ExxonMobil develops a fuel that belongs to the specifications of a certain engine.
Honda really does not do that itself, they have ExxonMobil for that.
.
@Wouter IIRC, A fuel compound from Honda's aviation department used with their jet engines was introduced to Exxon/Mobil via Honda F1. So it took awhile for Mobil to get the formula right.

https://www.speedweek.com/formel1/news/ ... Mobil.html
I have read the long article, but nowhere does it say that ExxonMobil does not develop the fuel itself.

Snorked wrote: ↑
I don't know, these are Google translated user comments:

"After all, ExxonMobil did not do anything"
As I wrote, that's not true.
But thanks for your link @Hino, nice article to read.

User avatar
Capharol
61
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 4:06 pm

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post

Honda's Formula 1 boss says Max Verstappen's relationship with the company is like seeing that of a young Ayrton Senna.

Honda's F1 managing director Masashi Yamamoto told Autosport: "As Honda, we see him as a very important factor with Honda's project.

"He's young, but his driving is really impressive.

"It looks like seeing a young Senna, with his relationship with Honda.

"Max maybe pays respect to Honda. He feels Honda is familiar. And then probably the badge he showed on the podium in Austria proved that he was very happy as well.

"This gives us an emotion that we want to provide a good engine for him.

"Of course, all the four drivers are very important for us."

Verstappen told Autosport last year that Honda's working practices were aligned with his and he also enjoyed seeing how emotional the manufacturer got when it achieved success.

Honda's Formula 1 boss says Max Verstappen's relationship with the company is like seeing that of a young Ayrton Senna.

Verstappen ended Honda's podium and win droughts in 2019, the first year of its new partnership with Red Bull, and praised the manufacturer regularly throughout the season.

He also pointed to the Honda badge on his race suit when he stepped onto the podium at the Austrian Grand Prix, the scene of Honda's first F1 win in 13 years.

Verstappen's three victories in 2019 have already moved him level with the likes of Keke Rosberg and Gerhard Berger on Honda's list of winners.

That list is topped by three-time world champion Senna, who won 32 grands prix and three world titles between 1987 and 1992 using Honda engines.

Honda's F1 managing director Masashi Yamamoto told Autosport: "As Honda, we see him as a very important factor with Honda's project.

"He's young, but his driving is really impressive.

"It looks like seeing a young Senna, with his relationship with Honda.

"Max maybe pays respect to Honda. He feels Honda is familiar. And then probably the badge he showed on the podium in Austria proved that he was very happy as well.

"This gives us an emotion that we want to provide a good engine for him.

"Of course, all the four drivers are very important for us."

Verstappen told Autosport last year that Honda's working practices were aligned with his and he also enjoyed seeing how emotional the manufacturer got when it achieved success.



Yamamoto said the 22-year-old had developed a close affinity to the brand.

"The passion we showed towards winning made the relationship stronger with him," said Yamamoto.

"He also has been to the F1 R&D centre and our mass production site.

"There's many, many people [working at those facilities] and he has actually seen it.

"He went through a tunnel of people getting high fives, like one kilometre long!

"That kind of thing maybe gave him a stronger impression about Honda, and a stronger commitment to Honda."
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/14777 ... oung-senna

because it's a premium article i copy/paste most of the article ,I think it will be free to read later, on Motorsport.com
Strive for continuous improvement, instead of perfection.
"Most people seem to turn off their brain when they turn on the computer and log in to social media."

User avatar
PlatinumZealot
471
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:45 am

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post

Wouter wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 2:18 pm
Snorked wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 1:36 pm
I don't know, these are Google translated user comments:

"After all, ExxonMobil did not do anything"

"HONDA was giving Esso instructions on the fuel components."
I have no idea who those people are, who say such things, but it really doesn't make any sense at all.
ExxonMobil develops a fuel that belongs to the specifications of a certain engine.
Honda really does not do that itself, they have ExxonMobil for that.
It makes sense to me. Fuel suppliers are chemists. They don't have the f1 engines with their complicated combustion regimes to test these fuels. They must have to rely on Honda's internal scientists to guide them in what fuel honda's engine needs.

This is similar to when i was in wastewater. I had to guide the supplier to the exact filter media that works for my water treatment. They had to toss out five different types of media that they suggested before they arrived for what works on my plant based on my test results. I know what media I wanted and how deep and where I wanted it and flow rates etc.

lio007
lio007
319
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:03 pm
Location: Austria

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post

There seem to be a close collaboration between Honda and Red Bull according to this report:
https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/honda ... 627528/amp

Here are the most relevant parts (Google translated):
And, the most interesting aspect is that Honda has put aside the traditional mistrust of the Japanese by forging a closer collaboration with Red Bull.

The integration between chassis and power unit is one of the most complicated aspects of modern F1 and the Milton Keynes team, apparently using the collaboration of the Austrians of AvL (the Graz company that has close ties with Ferrari ...), would have enlarged the His area of ​​expertise, bringing a contribution of ideas in the study of fluid dynamics that begins with the cooling of the 1.6-liter turbo 6 cylinders in the bellies and can go up to the feeding in the combustion chamber.

Not only that, but the two sides also try to exploit aerodynamically to the maximum the blowing effect of the wastegate exhaust gases that act when the engine is released, improving the efficiency of the rear wing and the extractor effect from the diffuser rear with a (slight) increase in low-speed downforce.
The Red Bull engineers had sought this approach even when they were supplied by Renault, but the willingness of the transalpines to accept deep technical "interference" by Milton Keynes had limited the experiments, although the power unit was more advanced than the one French house used on the official car. That's all to say!

Bill
Bill
9
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2018 9:28 am

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post

Honda has denied using Avl before this Italian they just print fake news

User avatar
ME4ME
173
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2014 3:37 pm

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post

Helmut Marko said on Servus that the RB16 was booked to run for four weeks on a Dutch dynamic test bench. No mention of AVL whatsover.

lio007
lio007
319
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:03 pm
Location: Austria

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post

ME4ME wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:00 pm
Helmut Marko said on Servus that the RB16 was booked to run for four weeks on a Dutch dynamic test bench. No mention of AVL whatsover.
What? I can't remember that he ever mentioned a Dutch dyno.

User avatar
ME4ME
173
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2014 3:37 pm

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post

lio007 wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 12:00 am
ME4ME wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:00 pm
Helmut Marko said on Servus that the RB16 was booked to run for four weeks on a Dutch dynamic test bench. No mention of AVL whatsover.
What? I can't remember that he ever mentioned a Dutch dyno.
I had saved the video link but it appears it has been taken down.
Anyway Racefans snapped up on it as well: https://www.racefans.net/2019/12/18/red ... -2020-car/

User avatar
Wouter
385
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:02 pm

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post

ME4ME wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 8:20 am
lio007 wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 12:00 am
ME4ME wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:00 pm
Helmut Marko said on Servus that the RB16 was booked to run for four weeks on a Dutch dynamic test bench. No mention of AVL whatsover.
What? I can't remember that he ever mentioned a Dutch dyno.
I had saved the video link but it appears it has been taken down.
Anyway Racefans snapped up on it as well: https://www.racefans.net/2019/12/18/red ... -2020-car/
Great that you found this article @ME4ME. Thanks.
He said it indeed on Servus TV.
Servus TV often removes there video"s.
There were several Dutch articles about the Dutch Dyno and Servus interview.
Last year Honda has denied working with AVL.

lio007
lio007
319
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:03 pm
Location: Austria

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post

I've seen the Interview live on TV, and he didn't mention the word "Dutch", but anyway, I think racefans got the translation wrong.
viewtopic.php?p=879049#p879049

We know Red Bull's VTT-dyno is from AVL
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... g_&ampcf=1

If there is more collaboration now, I don't know.
I can only remember as well, that Honda denied a cooperation a year ago
https://www.gptoday.net/nl/nieuws/f1/24 ... ad-met-avl

User avatar
Wouter
385
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:02 pm

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post

https://f1-gate.com/honda/f1_54388.html

Translation: Collins dictionairy.
Improving Power Unit Performance by Studying Combustion Methods
January 7, 2020

The current F1 is limited to 110kg in fuel weight and cannot be refueled during the race. Therefore, to run as fast as possible with limited fuel, an efficient power unit that balances fuel efficiency and power is required.

Takahashi, who has been involved in Honda's F1 project since 2015 and in charge of combustion at HRD Sakura, said, `` What was difficult was that F1 combustion was a completely different area from that of commercial vehicles. We had to learn everything ourselves. "

"In order to improve fuel efficiency there, it is important to achieve fast combustion."

Burning fuel quickly is one of the conditions for achieving both fuel efficiency and power.
Honda F1 has improved the shape and combustion method of the combustion chamber to burn the fuel faster.

"We had something that we were confident of that will make us more competitive," says Takahashi.

The New fuel was introduced at the F1 Japan GP.

User avatar
Wouter
385
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:02 pm

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post

ALL because of HONDA!! Max has faith in Honda and signed for another 3 years!! =D> =D> =D>