General Honda F1 Topic

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
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bigblue
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https://www.grandprix.com/news/no-need- ... orner.html :

Red Bull admits that it is also lacking top speed, but Horner says Honda is actually now supplying "probably the second most powerful engine in the field".

Asked if he thinks Honda is ahead of Renault, he answered: "I do."

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Wouter
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😍 😍 😍

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ispano6
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Win!!!! Congratulations Matsushita!!! Tsunoda drove hard too!


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Marti_EF3
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Great race of Tsunoda. Holding position with old hards! As I said in other thread, I think Tsunoda is great on managing the tires...

McMika98
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Sieper wrote:
Thu Aug 13, 2020 11:57 am
Mcmika, what you say is not all bad. And sometimes it is also good to have some counter clockwise thinking, but you’ll have to admit to what NZJRS said. F.e. Albon would surprise all and outscore Max, you said it. Later you said things along the lines we all say, Albon is quite good but Max is outstanding and in the car/team much longer. You don’t always have to be consistent, none of us are. But you really seem to make a sport out of it.
I will admit that point, Albon has been nothing but a massive disappointment, I expected him to be up there. Fans can be critical, I am a massive Honda and Albon fan but when they dont deliver I will slate them for lack of performance. Albon does not have an excuse here, his quali has been embarrassing.

mzso
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Hi!

How do engine powers compare these? Ferrari is clearly last, but what about the others?
It was trendy to estimate engine power via acoustic analysis 2-3 years ago. Is no-one doing that anymore?

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Big Tea
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McMika98 wrote:
Sun Aug 16, 2020 4:38 pm
Sieper wrote:
Thu Aug 13, 2020 11:57 am
Mcmika, what you say is not all bad. And sometimes it is also good to have some counter clockwise thinking, but you’ll have to admit to what NZJRS said. F.e. Albon would surprise all and outscore Max, you said it. Later you said things along the lines we all say, Albon is quite good but Max is outstanding and in the car/team much longer. You don’t always have to be consistent, none of us are. But you really seem to make a sport out of it.
I will admit that point, Albon has been nothing but a massive disappointment, I expected him to be up there. Fans can be critical, I am a massive Honda and Albon fan but when they dont deliver I will slate them for lack of performance. Albon does not have an excuse here, his quali has been embarrassing.
Albon seems to have been cut adrift somewhat. They have brought in a different engineer to help him out, but when you consider Hamilton, apart from his Dad, had Ron, Haug, Niki, Toto, and in particular Angela to put an arm around him and say 'We are here' all througy his career. Max had his dad, who has been around the clock in F1, and is Marco's favorite.

Albon is like the kid sent to see the head when he turns up at Marco's office.Alone and in the dog house with no support.

He was not prepared for F1, he was on his way to FE, then got a call to turn up for a lower team, where he did very well, then whisked away from the group he was getting established in, to replace another very good driver who had been humiliated and discarded, against arguably one of the best 2 drivers of the era.

Then after half a season (and the Covid fracas) he is in a car that he cannot trust the handling of being compared to Max, but having to do all the back up stuff and sacrifice his own race.

I would say he would be a perfect team mate to go back to STR, but then the 'demotion' could destroy him.

He has my sympathy.
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Wouter
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Big Tea wrote:
Mon Aug 17, 2020 11:10 am
McMika98 wrote:
Sun Aug 16, 2020 4:38 pm
Sieper wrote:
Thu Aug 13, 2020 11:57 am
Mcmika, what you say is not all bad. And sometimes it is also good to have some counter clockwise thinking, but you’ll have to admit to what NZJRS said. F.e. Albon would surprise all and outscore Max, you said it. Later you said things along the lines we all say, Albon is quite good but Max is outstanding and in the car/team much longer. You don’t always have to be consistent, none of us are. But you really seem to make a sport out of it.
I will admit that point, Albon has been nothing but a massive disappointment, I expected him to be up there. Fans can be critical, I am a massive Honda and Albon fan but when they dont deliver I will slate them for lack of performance. Albon does not have an excuse here, his quali has been embarrassing.
Albon seems to have been cut adrift somewhat. They have brought in a different engineer to help him out, but when you consider Hamilton, apart from his Dad, had Ron, Haug, Niki, Toto, and in particular Angela to put an arm around him and say 'We are here' all througy his career. Max had his dad, who has been around the clock in F1, and is Marco's favorite.

Albon is like the kid sent to see the head when he turns up at Marco's office.Alone and in the dog house with no support.

He was not prepared for F1, he was on his way to FE, then got a call to turn up for a lower team, where he did very well, then whisked away from the group he was getting established in, to replace another very good driver who had been humiliated and discarded, against arguably one of the best 2 drivers of the era.

Then after half a season (and the Covid fracas) he is in a car that he cannot trust the handling of being compared to Max, but having to do all the back up stuff and sacrifice his own race.

I would say he would be a perfect team mate to go back to STR, but then the 'demotion' could destroy him.

He has my sympathy.


Well said @Big Tea !

McMika98
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Big Tea wrote:
Mon Aug 17, 2020 11:10 am

Albon seems to have been cut adrift somewhat.
He was not prepared for F1, he was on his way to FE, then got a call to turn up for a lower team, where he did very well, then whisked away from the group he was getting established in, to replace another very good driver who had been humiliated and discarded, against arguably one of the best 2 drivers of the era.
He has my sympathy.
I still root for Albon n Honda, hopefully performance will come soon. I rate him as high as Leclerc, Russell and above Norris. 7 tenths behind Max makes no sense and he is a very good in one lap pace. Studying his onboards he loses out massively under braking.

gshevlin
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Albon is being given the Pierre Gasly treatment. When Gasly struggled compared to Max Verstappen, rather than working harder to give him a car that he liked, they bumped him back to TR and put Albon in the seat.
Red Bull's approach to driver management is mostly Up Or Out.

Zynerji
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gshevlin wrote:
Mon Aug 17, 2020 2:48 pm
Albon is being given the Pierre Gasly treatment. When Gasly struggled compared to Max Verstappen, rather than working harder to give him a car that he liked, they bumped him back to TR and put Albon in the seat.
Red Bull's approach to driver management is mostly Up Or Out.
As it should be in a Merit based system.

I'd have Hulk in his car for FP1 @ Spa, for sure!

DChemTech
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Zynerji wrote:
Mon Aug 17, 2020 2:58 pm
gshevlin wrote:
Mon Aug 17, 2020 2:48 pm
Albon is being given the Pierre Gasly treatment. When Gasly struggled compared to Max Verstappen, rather than working harder to give him a car that he liked, they bumped him back to TR and put Albon in the seat.
Red Bull's approach to driver management is mostly Up Or Out.
As it should be in a Merit based system.
Well, as it is in the American version of merit-based. Most civilized countries luckily do recognize that talent is something that needs to be nurtured, and even in a merit-based system, you need to help people unlock their potential. Red Bull is providing such assistance to Max, clearly, and not (adequately) to their second driver at the moment.

If you are of the opinion that talent should be able to nurture itself, just imagine how many potential Einsteins or Bachs likely died working the fields throughout history, and still, because there was noone around to recognize their talents or help them develop it, financially or otherwise.

Zynerji
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DChemTech wrote:
Mon Aug 17, 2020 3:12 pm
Zynerji wrote:
Mon Aug 17, 2020 2:58 pm
gshevlin wrote:
Mon Aug 17, 2020 2:48 pm
Albon is being given the Pierre Gasly treatment. When Gasly struggled compared to Max Verstappen, rather than working harder to give him a car that he liked, they bumped him back to TR and put Albon in the seat.
Red Bull's approach to driver management is mostly Up Or Out.
As it should be in a Merit based system.
Well, as it is in the American version of merit-based. Most civilized countries luckily do recognize that talent is something that needs to be nurtured, and even in a merit-based system, you need to help people unlock their potential. Red Bull is providing such assistance to Max, clearly, and not (adequately) to their second driver at the moment.

If you are of the opinion that talent should be able to nurture itself, just imagine how many potential Einsteins or Bachs likely died working the fields throughout history, and still, because there was noone around to recognize their talents or help them develop it, financially or otherwise.
Feeder series entire purpose of existence is for driver development.

F1 is for Butterflies, not Caterpillars.

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Sieper
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I also feel that AlBon is talented enough to warrant a seat. It is just hard that the RBR cars are always hard to get along with in the beginning of the season. Gasly is now much more happy with a car that has a lot of genes of the RB15 that he struggled with last year.

Would hulkenberg fair better? That RP is a well handling (last years best car with this years much improved PU) car that Perez and Stroll are also quick in. Stroll is now getting a better rep, but why. Its the car doing the work. Perez is OK but in the rain he bins it quite often. Not the sign of a really great driver. Plus, Perez knows well enough to not hurt Stroll in races.

It would be great if he can inch closer. Instead of further away. That builds the pressure. Hamilton took him out twice. Brazil was a travesty. Austria people differ opinion on. But in any case. Withthose results Albon would have likely been in a better place. Now you see him struggle, he did take one for the team at least Partly this weekend. With that run on the white tire.

Hopefully without qualy mode he can battle with the RPs. That will help him.
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DChemTech
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Zynerji wrote:
Mon Aug 17, 2020 3:36 pm
DChemTech wrote:
Mon Aug 17, 2020 3:12 pm
Zynerji wrote:
Mon Aug 17, 2020 2:58 pm


As it should be in a Merit based system.
Well, as it is in the American version of merit-based. Most civilized countries luckily do recognize that talent is something that needs to be nurtured, and even in a merit-based system, you need to help people unlock their potential. Red Bull is providing such assistance to Max, clearly, and not (adequately) to their second driver at the moment.

If you are of the opinion that talent should be able to nurture itself, just imagine how many potential Einsteins or Bachs likely died working the fields throughout history, and still, because there was noone around to recognize their talents or help them develop it, financially or otherwise.
Feeder series entire purpose of existence is for driver development.

F1 is for Butterflies, not Caterpillars.
I don't agree with that assessment. If I would compare it with a 'real' job, feeder series are your university degree - you are qualified enough to drive in the big league. But that does not mean you are just put in the car and told "good luck". Anyone coming fresh from university will need some time to adapt properly to their work life, and they will need support too to handle specific aspects - otherwise even proper A-grade students may not develop a successful career. Hell, the same goes for experienced hires moving to another company. A friend of mine recently switched employer after 10 years and was specifically hired by his new company for his expertise in a certain analysis - yet rather than dropping him right into action, he does get a couple of months training first. Because, you know, different machines, different colleagues, different protocols. For all the experience he has, he still does need proper support to utilize it. And it is no different for an F1 driver. Look at Vettel, even within a team where he has been for a long time.

BTW, I have a huge sympathy for Nico and I would like to see him in an RB - I would have liked that at the beginning of the season, or halfway last season, and I still would like that to happen - and I do think Albon may not be up to the task. But I do think that significant part of the underperformance as is is due to lack of support.