General Honda F1 Topic

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
User avatar
PlatinumZealot
459
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:45 am

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post

Espresso wrote:
Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:55 pm
Well back to topic on the engine! =D> Technical piece from Drivetribe to restart the thread.
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Why the Honda F1 Engines don't work
So to explain the complexities Honda are facing in getting things right, first we must all get get a basic understanding what the things are. This article is in no way complete and (using F1 language,) “for sure” is a very simplified scenario of why Honda are struggling to produce power, any kind of fuel economy, and not least, reliability....

...continue reading this piece in this article
https://drivetribe.imgix.net/E3bJzEL9S- ... aces,edges
You are off topic! This is not the engine thread! Mods?! Finish him!

User avatar
turbof1
Moderator
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:36 pm
Location: MountDoom CFD Matrix

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post

PlatinumZealot wrote:
Wed Dec 20, 2017 6:10 pm
Espresso wrote:
Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:55 pm
Well back to topic on the engine! =D> Technical piece from Drivetribe to restart the thread.
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Why the Honda F1 Engines don't work
So to explain the complexities Honda are facing in getting things right, first we must all get get a basic understanding what the things are. This article is in no way complete and (using F1 language,) “for sure” is a very simplified scenario of why Honda are struggling to produce power, any kind of fuel economy, and not least, reliability....

...continue reading this piece in this article
https://drivetribe.imgix.net/E3bJzEL9S- ... aces,edges
You are off topic! This is not the engine thread! Mods?! Finish him!
At once, my overlord!
#AeroFrodo

Snorked
Snorked
114
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2015 8:00 pm

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post

Verstappen visited Honda Sakura before he resigned for Red Bull:

Red Bull announced at the end of October that Verstappen extended its contract with the team until the end of 2020. Marko said in the Austrian TV program Sport und Talk : "We have simply explained to him what our plans for the future look like and we have assured him that all top people in the team up to 2020 are under contract with us, and that we have an alternative engine, we flew to Honda in Sakura, where they have a fantastic factory, and that's what crossed the line. "

User avatar
HPD
388
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2016 3:06 pm

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post

Asked if his thoughts on the future were changed by the possibility of Red Bull taking Honda engines, Verstappen said: "That is 2019.
"I am not making that decision. I know I am driving with a Red Bull Renault next year and then we will see.
"First we need to see what I am doing in 2019. I am not worried about it.
"I want to focus on the beginning of 2018 and see how competitive we are.
"It could be that Honda next year is very competitive, but I don't know what is decided for the future.
"I just want to see what will happen at the beginning of 2018 and then we will know."
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13179 ... 2019-plans
Hasegawa: "We can be rivals - of McLaren - all we need is to be at that level," he told SoyMotor.com.

"It's obvious that we need time to be the first engine." In the 80s, before working with McLaren we have several seasons with Williams, we have to be committed to Formula 1 until we get to that level.

He feels that Honda is no longer the manufacturer that was at the beginning of 2015. He is convinced that his alliance with McLaren has helped them learn and grow.

"Our organization is getting stronger, we are gaining experience, we have to accept that our preparation for Formula 1 was a bit late," he explains.

"I am learning and growing, gaining experience in each field, I had previous experience, but many engineers were new, we had to rebuild our structure in many areas."

"It would be hard to say that I would not be ready, but it is possible that I have reached a certain level, but if there is someone who is faster than you, you are not prepared, because you need to be at that level ... We are proud of that improvement."

Hasegawa does not reveal how many engineers he has in his Formula 1 department, but he does point out that they are not far from leaders' numbers. "I do not think the difference is big, Mercedes has a lot of personnel, but the difference is not very big according to our investigations".

"We needed to change the concept, because after 2016 we understood that we needed more power, we improved the organization of the components, the center of gravity ... I had no other option," he says.

"Obviously, that change is not complete in the winter tests, do I regret something?" Of course, we had to start preparing the 2017 engine much earlier, but I am convinced that we did the right thing by changing it.

"The concept of the engine will not change in 2018. It is necessary that the same year this year, but the most important modifications for the Toro Rosso chassis.As the change of equipment arrived very late, it is not easy to install the engine in the chassis from the design point of view, that's very difficult, but it's a challenge when you're in a hurry. "
http://soymotor.com/noticias/hasegawa-p ... tor-943773

User avatar
NathanOlder
151
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:05 am
Location: Kent

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post

The thing with Max signing and Mclaren dumping, someone has to be wrong, and someone is right.

So is Max wrong to sign, or are Mclaren wrong to ditch honda ?
GoLandoGo
Lewis v2.0

Does anyone play F1 2020 on Ps4, Now starting our 3rd season. No assists, 50% races.

https://rapidpixelracing.com

McHonda
McHonda
16
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2017 1:33 am

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post

Different scenarios for both RB and McLaren so it's neither really.

If McLaren hadn't suffered 3 years of disaster already,lost sponsors and prize money, and had a 'B' team to put Honda until they came good then they wouldn't have split.

Red Bull on the other hand have actually gained from the McHonda nightmare with Tag Heur and Exxon Mobil jumping ship to them, they've suffered no backmarker seasons and can watch their 'B' team use Honda until they come good.

Couldn't be more different scenario's so it's not a case of 1 being wrong and 1 being right.

User avatar
NathanOlder
151
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:05 am
Location: Kent

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post

From what the media say about Max re-signing it sounds like from what he saw in Japan had a big influence on him putting pen to paper. So you could say he sees Honda being a force in 12 months time. Remembering he could have signed with ANY team in 2019, yet he stayed because he sees red bull being top dog in 2018 or 2019. If he values Honda that highly why don't Mclaren ?
GoLandoGo
Lewis v2.0

Does anyone play F1 2020 on Ps4, Now starting our 3rd season. No assists, 50% races.

https://rapidpixelracing.com

Joseki
Joseki
56
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2015 6:30 pm

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post

NathanOlder wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2017 12:21 am
From what the media say about Max re-signing it sounds like from what he saw in Japan had a big influence on him putting pen to paper. So you could say he sees Honda being a force in 12 months time. Remembering he could have signed with ANY team in 2019, yet he stayed because he sees red bull being top dog in 2018 or 2019. If he values Honda that highly why don't Mclaren ?
Maybe he values Aston Martin highly.

McHonda
McHonda
16
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2017 1:33 am

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post

NathanOlder wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2017 12:21 am
From what the media say about Max re-signing it sounds like from what he saw in Japan had a big influence on him putting pen to paper. So you could say he sees Honda being a force in 12 months time. Remembering he could have signed with ANY team in 2019, yet he stayed because he sees red bull being top dog in 2018 or 2019. If he values Honda that highly why don't Mclaren ?
Because neither he or Red Bull have suffered anything and will not suffer at all if Honda bomb in 2018. They'd both suffer at worst 1 year in 2019 if Honda are still at sea and then Max's clauses could get him out if he so wished and there was a taker available. Minimum risk.

Alonso-less McLaren having a 6th straight year of failure would be potentially catastrophic to their future ambitions. They could lose even more sponsors and more importantly their best talent from the Technical Department.Renault are still on a big recruitment drive. There's no use if by the time Honda come good you don't have the capability to build top cars anymore and have someone to pilot them. Then it's Honda looking for a better car and driver to show off their PU and Red Bull come sniffing.

You still don't seem to appreciate the two completely different places RB/Max and McLaren are in and the influence that holds on their decision making. Swap them around and McLaren would be sniffing about Honda right now offering their 'B' team so they could get a good look at Honda completely risk free.

And then there's Max own specific situation. He was contracted until the end of 2019 anyway(Red Bull say they held an option) and where else would he realistically go at the end of that? Who says Mercedes want another drama filled pairing after Nico/Lewis? Ferrari rarely put two roosters in the same hen house and have Leclerc coming through anyway and everywhere else is a sideways or backwards step.

If you're him, why not take the massive pay increase, get some favourable clauses(rumored) and at worst case scenario if Honda don't improve for 2019 and RB don't get an extension with Renault and have to run them, then you put up with a less competitive PU for 1 year until your clauses kick in and you can leave(if you can get in elsewhere, if not 2 years but the likelihood of Honda still being too poor to compete in 2020 has to be very slim you would hope).

No-brainer for him.

604gtir
604gtir
6
Joined: Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:44 pm

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post

NathanOlder wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2017 12:21 am
From what the media say about Max re-signing it sounds like from what he saw in Japan had a big influence on him putting pen to paper. So you could say he sees Honda being a force in 12 months time. Remembering he could have signed with ANY team in 2019, yet he stayed because he sees red bull being top dog in 2018 or 2019. If he values Honda that highly why don't Mclaren ?
or the real reason is there was no where else to go.
mercedes are happy with their two drivers
and vettel would likely veto that signing

User avatar
NathanOlder
151
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:05 am
Location: Kent

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post

604gtir wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2017 4:49 am
NathanOlder wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2017 12:21 am
From what the media say about Max re-signing it sounds like from what he saw in Japan had a big influence on him putting pen to paper. So you could say he sees Honda being a force in 12 months time. Remembering he could have signed with ANY team in 2019, yet he stayed because he sees red bull being top dog in 2018 or 2019. If he values Honda that highly why don't Mclaren ?
or the real reason is there was no where else to go.
mercedes are happy with their two drivers
and vettel would likely veto that signing
Very good point. Didnt think of it that way.
GoLandoGo
Lewis v2.0

Does anyone play F1 2020 on Ps4, Now starting our 3rd season. No assists, 50% races.

https://rapidpixelracing.com

aral
aral
Moderator
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 9:49 pm

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post

Despite this being a thread devoted to Honda, it has now deviated into the qualities etc of Max Verstappen and Red Bull, and so some off topic posts have been removed. Some others should also be removed but as there is a slight reference to honda in them, they have been allowed to remain.
Please stay on topic.

User avatar
HPD
388
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2016 3:06 pm

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post

As McLaren and Alonso embrace Renault euphorically, Honda is also turning the page with a smile.
The Japanese press consulted by "The Confidential" is clear.

"Better than him, there's no one, he's a number 1."
"Tanabe is a true 'racing-man'"
"Tanabe has been in Honda since the 80s and continued in the 2000s", they count from Japan. "When Honda left F1 in 2008, many engineers went to street cars but some went on racing, one of them was Tanabe, it's a real racing-man."
"He's someone very smart, a 100% bet"

Tanabe will rely on a new chief of operations, Yasuaki Asaki, who will work from Sakura to coordinate what they already draw as an internal "revolution". "Tanabe's approach is going to be in the factory's work, because they need someone capable of accelerating all processes."

"At the end of the races, Hasegawa always came back to the factory in Sakura, he was taking everything, on and off the track, it was very inefficient, and Honda understood that the leadership had to be separated." This system prevented the factory from solving in a coordinated way all engine problems.

The transition was orchestrated for a long time and there could even be a certain transfer of powers. In October, Tanabe went to the US GP and did not leave Hasegawa, who has a good relationship with him. "They're friends, if there had not been an agreement between Hasegawa and Honda, Tanabe would not have accepted the post, they have a very Japanese relationship like big brother and little brother."

"Tanabe is very, very smart," they insist on Japan. "In Sakura they see him as a number 1. If Honda has taken him from the United States for F1, it is a 100% bet.

At the moment, Tanabe already seems to be clear about his approach. "Now Honda is going to focus on seeing how he takes advantage of the talent of his production department for F1, there are workers who are already there and who can finish in the races."

"There are 1000 people working in Sakura, only 300 in F1, but there are different experiences and talents, so far, Honda saw F1 as an advertising tool, but instead as a money-making machine, until 2017, They believed that transferring resources from street cars to Formula 1 meant leaving production aside, and therefore forgetting what was important.The balance was very uneven.But Honda has realized that its image in Europe is very important, and therefore they must balance it. " That's why 2018 really can mark a new start for Honda in F1.

Also, in fact, to simplify objectives. In Honda they already rule out that its president -Takahiro Hachigo- is imminent in political matters like Sergio Marchionne. "It's a brand that does not deal with politics, it goes a bit against the samurai spirit, they always fight through engineering."

But without almost regulatory changes, the short time and all the errors with McLaren, why be optimistic before 2018? "The base of the engine is good", "One of the big problems with McLaren was the vibrations: it happened because they did not connect the turbo and the MGU-H at high speeds, the solution is on the way and they have been working it for months".

"Honda improved some three tenths between March and summer, and then three more between summer and autumn," they reveal satisfied. If the MGU-H works and they maintain a good evolution, could they regret McLaren and Alonso? "It is difficult that they will soon reach Mercedes," they reiterate in Japan. "But they can get to Renault."

"McLaren knew it ... but it did not say it"
The history with McLaren is past water since September. Since October, Honda has been in continuous contact with Toro Rosso and even set this December as the limit to test the 2018 engine with the built-in gearbox.

At the end of the year, in the Brazilian GP, ​​something happened behind the scenes.
"Friday, day of the free, the leaf of the 'speed-trap' (maximum top speeds) is never published, but Honda has access to it, Alonso marked that day 331.6 km / h, in 11th place. in classification, and without being able to change the adjustment of the engine, he made 311.8 km / h (the last), all blamed Honda, Hasegawa said at a press conference that it was because of the engine, but outside of the microphone he told something different. in that it was also due to the 'drag' effect (air resistance) generated by the car through the configuration that had been adjusted that day, because the speed-trap does not measure both the pure power, also the effect generated by the car on the straights. "
So, what if it was not all black and white? "It's something that Mclaren already knew, but he did not say it in public," they say. In Honda they continue to take the blame in the first person, but point-as did the former mechanic Tetsuo Tsugawa, that the 2017 McLaren had certain points that could harm the speed on the straight. For example, that rear spoiler more voluminous and wider compared to other cars.

https://www.elconfidencial.com/deportes ... n_1497913/

lio007
lio007
317
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:03 pm
Location: Austria

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post

HPD wrote:
Tue Dec 26, 2017 7:22 pm
..."One of the big problems with McLaren was the vibrations: it happened because they did not connect the turbo and the MGU-H at high speeds, the solution is on the way and they have been working it for months"....
That's (for me) the most interesting part that I absolutely don't understand: "...they did not connect the Turbo and the MGU-H..."

Something lost in translation? Can anybody give us some Explanation?

User avatar
etusch
139
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 10:09 pm
Location: Turkey

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post

Maybe it says MGU-H produced by Mclaren At.