General Honda F1 Topic

[Talisman]

i belivve honda is ahead, its just unfortuante , toro rosso cant bring in the developments quickly and the drivers are basically rookie. i just wish there was sainz in there but he was loan. the potential of the car is never known trully

That's STR's problem and is of no real relevance in the long term.

For the real players, RBR and Honda, the chassis performance isn't a big issue.

[rogazilla]

In fact, if I were Red Bull, first thing I would do is delay TR's aero upgrade to Canada and/or France. Why? Then you can see the true improvement to the PU and not contribute it to the Aero.

Then it further fuel the conspiracy which I personally don't believe: to put the old put back in Gasley's car and see a more direct comparison on the same track with no aero differences. Gasley is the more consistent driver of the 2 which makes it a better comparison than using Hartley.

[baybars]

Marko said Honda's update was worth 3 tenths.

http://www.autobild.de/artikel/formel-1 ... 20491.html

https://www.f1today.net/en/news/f1/2391 ... nths-marko

3 tenths equal about 20 ps according to below article


https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/formel-1/red-bull/

Red Bull benefits less from Renault's expansion stage than the factory. That's because of the different fuel. While Renault wins 20hp or three-tenths, Red Bull earns 12hp or 0.15sec on the lap time. For the next fuel development of the World Cup third has to wait a bit. "We'll get them in Hungary at the earliest.

[restless]

I guess autobild link should be http://www.autobild.de/artikel/formel-1 ... 20491.html

[Talisman]

Marko said Honda's update was worth 3 tenths.

http://www.autobild.de/artikel/formel-1 ... 20491.html

https://www.f1today.net/en/news/f1/2391 ... nths-marko

3 tenths equal about 20 ps according to below article


https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/formel-1/red-bull/

Red Bull benefits less from Renault's expansion stage than the factory. That's because of the different fuel. While Renault wins 20hp or three-tenths, Red Bull earns 12hp or 0.15sec on the lap time. For the next fuel development of the World Cup third has to wait a bit. "We'll get them in Hungary at the earliest.

So the Honda upgrade was roughly the same as Renaults plus new fuel. Did Honda get new fuel too?

[Thunder]

So the Honda upgrade was roughly the same as Renaults plus new fuel. Did Honda get new fuel too?

I would guess so, Updates to the ICE usually come with new Fuel.

[techman]

the honda fuel is the same with redbull. this update is from ice . pretty impressive.

[Thunder]

Don't know. I doubt the Honda and Renault Engines use the same Fuel.

[etusch]

the honda fuel is the same with redbull. this update is from ice . pretty impressive.

Yes if there is fuel update then redbull also takes same power with renault but thinking fuel updates bring same power is strange. So even if we assume that Honda update came with fuel update and it brings same power with renault then it must be from fuel or from hardware much of gain.
Whatever it is, it is a good update from Honda

[techman]

i dont think there was an update for the fuel honda uses, so this update is from ice

[Sasha]

It nice everybody talks about HP with the upgrades but most likely that wasn't why Honda PU upgrade equal 0.3 sec at Canada.

Honda always had problems with ERS on long straits since day one.(in the past the energy deployment was done half way down the long strait.....they was sitting ducks to everybody and could never pass anybody on a strait)

Honda always was burning too much fuel so was always cutting ICE power more than others.

The improve performance came from fixing those two problems rather than adding 20 KW.

[Bill]

The difference in powerunit in 2016 was only 0.1 second &a Honda could deploy longer in races like spa ,Honda was not always a setting duck in straight that's a lie even last they could fight with force India and Williams toward season end

[HPD]

When Renault agreed to exchange TR for Mclaren. It was a positive point for Renault, and a negative point for Honda. (marketing)

Renault knew that Red Bull would use TR as a test. But they never thought that Honda would be a threat to the Red Bull Renault alliance.
Renault lost by accepting Mclaren. They sinned by underestimating Honda and now they have lost their biggest partner.

Why did Renault think that Honda would not be a threat?
Maybe a little bird told him lies. We will never know...

Welcome to game of thrones..

[Revs84]

In this article, according to Honda officials, 40bhp might not be too far off, although it seems that being a power circuit, in Canada 10kw translate to around 0.2s a lap.

https://sportiva.shueisha.co.jp/smart/c ... _split_26/

Just want to point out that the Honda officials have said nothing of the sort in that article.

Tanabe rubbishes the 27 and 40 BHP numbers claiming neither he nor Honda have said nothing of the sort.

The 40 bhp figure mentioned later is the impression the journalist gets from having spoken to other Honda staff, claiming the combustion improvement is substantial and is therefore likely to be around 40 BHP. Again no specific numbers mentioned by anyone from Honda. The journalist then estimates what such a power increase might translate to in Canada.

Its interesting to hear though that the upgrade was introduced in Canada despite Hartley and Gasley's earlier issues meaning it could have been delayed until later. They wanted to specifically show they could introduce a reliable substantial upgrade to pre-agreed timelines. I guess not just for internal benefit but to impress RBR too.

Also its worth noting Gasley's comments later in the article where he clearly states Honda were not as powerful as Renault prior to Canada, contrary to some of the more optimistic posts on this thread.

Thanks for the clarification. I was going by Google translation

Also, I think it is quite a recognized fact that Honda were still slightly behind Renault - I believe I had read somewhere that it was stated to be around 12hp, although it's not clear whether that's peak power or not.

Being so close, most people started implying that they were actually equal - especially after such claim was made by Mateschitz earlier this year.

How they really compare in reality, I guess only Red Bull and Honda know at this point. The rest of us just speculate and scour the internet hoping to one day get an answer - which I doubt we will ever get, hence the speculation

[McMika98]

As i said the only number that counts is the laptime. We know that the Toro Rosso is an evolution of last years chassis and last year it was not in the level of Renault or Force India. When two rookies learning the track can match laptimes of Mclaren, its clear sign that the package is much better than advertised.