F1 without Ferrari?

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Jolle
132
Joined: 29 Jan 2014, 22:58
Location: Dordrecht

Re: F1 without FERRARI

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Edax wrote:
17 Mar 2018, 01:18
Jolle wrote:
16 Mar 2018, 21:51
Edax wrote:
16 Mar 2018, 21:42

I think you hit the nail on the head. The question is not so much what F1 will do without Ferrari, it will run fine. The question is more what Ferrari will do without F1.

Arguably the supercar landscape is much more competitive than it was 20, 30 or 40 years ago. In my youth it was simple you either had a poster of a Countach on the wall or an F40. There were some alternatives like the Vector or the XJ220. But in the pricerange “what I might be able to afford if I eat rice for the rest of my life” there were only a few.

Nowadays there are so many nice offerings in that segment. Lambo, Jaguar, Bugatti, Koeningsegg, Porsche, Audi, Mercedes, Mclaren, Bentley, Lotus, Aston Martin.

At the moment Ferrari can lean on their heritage, much of which is due to F1. If your corvette catches fire it is due to shoddy American engineering, if your Ferrari catches fire it is due to Italian passion. A ferrari is worth more than the sum of its components and performance.

I think it is an error to assume that they will maintain that special status amongst car buyers when they would leave F1. When they lose that Ferrari premium, my guess is they will find it much harder to compete.
But like you’ve been able to read from other posters above here, this is only true if F1 doesn’t become a Indy car style spec series. RedBull especially is the odd one out at the moment, not being a car manufacturer from the big teams. They want to go back to a formula that plays in their advantage: more or less standardized engines.

It’s a complicated political problem
I think it is more a human problem. Car technology has progressed to a point where it reaches the limits of what is possible. Not in terms of technology. It is possible to make cars that go a lot faster, but they would surpass the abilities of that human brain that is controlling it, and which has barely evolved since first going to the track.

Just imagine. If we would free up all the rules we would end up with 9g monsters. Maybe the best of the drivers could get them around a track in an orderly fasion, but not while competing with other drivers. That is something which every series except roborace has to content with.

But as F1 becomes more restricted and more specified, it still is the fastest of the spec series. There are tons of manufacturers that can make a gt3 or a gt4 series car. There are only few which can compete on F1 level. Even with a fully standardised engine you have to invest a ton of knowledge an get all the details right, to be able to compete.

As long if F1 stays on the top of the pack, and the closest to the limits, it will always have a special appeal and marketing value.
Racing or building a car to a certain formula and a spec series are two very different takes. The formula gets a revision every few years because else it would go too fast. This is an ongoing process since the beginning of the formula. Just imagine what full turbo ground effect cars would have looked like in 2000. They would of ripped your head off. Spec cars are from the same builder, or the same design. The organization is responsible for the car instead of the manufacturer or the team running it. In GT racing its even worse with the balance of performance, which has nothing to do with sport.

F1 is about building a better car then your rivals. That is or must also be the main focus in its marketing. Else it’s just a badge on a series designed car.

3jawchuck
37
Joined: 03 Feb 2015, 08:57

Re: F1 without Ferrari?

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Sevach wrote:
17 Mar 2018, 01:46
If Ferrari steps away from F1 and into Indycar then Liberty has a big problem on their hands.
A huge loss to F1 and creating a credible competitor.
F1 can keep going but it's profits will fall from cliff.

I don't think it will happen though.
If Ferrari left F1, they'd not be doing it to go to a spec series.

Just_a_fan
591
Joined: 31 Jan 2010, 20:37

Re: F1 without Ferrari?

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To quote the bard: "Stand not upon the order of thy going, but go at once."
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

awro
0
Joined: 16 Mar 2018, 16:15

Re: F1 without Ferrari?

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And what do you all think if Ferrari walks out from F1 to invest all in FE? I don't think that's too much silly to think about it: since the beginning of the F1 (and the motorsport),the goal of the manifactures is to obtain technology and knowledge from racing and apply it to the street cars. So,the hybrid era (as maybe can be proved by Audi and Porsche moving from WEC to FE) has been overtaken by the full electric in terms of what the business could be in the future,this may can add a point to the Ferrari step back from F1 (and so,join FE)

Just_a_fan
591
Joined: 31 Jan 2010, 20:37

Re: F1 without Ferrari?

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The goal of manufacturers in motor sport is marketing to sell cars - "see it race on Sunday, buy it on Monday". Ferrari aren't in the business of making electric cars, they make fast, loud petrol cars. Whether they end up making electric cars is an interesting question. I doubt they will.

There is little feed back of technology from track to road. The manufacturers spend a lot more on road car R&D than they do on their motor sport teams.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

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GPR-A duplicate2
64
Joined: 07 Aug 2014, 09:00

Re: F1 without Ferrari?

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It would be AWESOME when a full electric LaFerrari, at 20000 RPM sound like a hair dryer! That's Nirvana!


awro
0
Joined: 16 Mar 2018, 16:15

Re: F1 without Ferrari?

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GPR-A wrote:
17 Mar 2018, 10:24
It would be AWESOME when a full electric LaFerrari, at 20000 RPM sound like a hair dryer! That's Nirvana!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywR4AYqPXz4
Ahahahahah...that sound is just awful...no one in my town will turn the head with an admired look upon the face for the lucky owner of a Ferrari with a sound like this!
All the poetry would be lost

Jolle
132
Joined: 29 Jan 2014, 22:58
Location: Dordrecht

Re: F1 without Ferrari?

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(at the moment) formula E is nothing more then a very clever markering series. How to get all your customers on a racing event in the middle of their own city instead of a circuit somewhere in the middle of nowhere. The cars are (mostly) spec, almost no downforce and extremely hard tires to make it look a bit exciting. No where near any type of constructor sport.

Sevach
1046
Joined: 07 Jun 2012, 17:00

Re: F1 without Ferrari?

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3jawchuck wrote:
17 Mar 2018, 02:22
Sevach wrote:
17 Mar 2018, 01:46
If Ferrari steps away from F1 and into Indycar then Liberty has a big problem on their hands.
A huge loss to F1 and creating a credible competitor.
F1 can keep going but it's profits will fall from cliff.

I don't think it will happen though.
If Ferrari left F1, they'd not be doing it to go to a spec series.
Chassis is spec, engines are not, plus the American market is still number 1 for Ferraris.
Not to mention the possibilty that they change to accomodate Ferrari.

Other than Indycar only the renewed GT1 idea makes sense to me, F-E come on...

Ennis
2
Joined: 16 Jun 2014, 12:47

Re: F1 without Ferrari?

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A big part, in fact I'd say almost all the value of F1, is really in the name.

To build that 'something' - the prestige, the draw, the glamour, the name.. it can take decades. And it can still fail.

A Ferrari Formula would have less chance of survival than a Formula 1 without Ferrari. As others have already touched on, the real problems with Ferrari and F1 is F1 wants to do the right thing for the sport whilst Ferrari wants to do the right thing for Ferrari. Why would other manufacturers follow them, knowing that really they want disproportionate control?


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strad
117
Joined: 02 Jan 2010, 01:57

Re: F1 without Ferrari?

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Ferrari has been integral with F1 but the idea that F1 can't get along without them is ludicrous.
The very idea that they get a larger cut of the pie and have more power over rule making is insulting to all the rest of F1.
To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
Sir Stirling Moss

3jawchuck
37
Joined: 03 Feb 2015, 08:57

Re: F1 without Ferrari?

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strad wrote:
25 Mar 2018, 23:36
Ferrari has been integral with F1 but the idea that F1 can't get along without them is ludicrous.
The very idea that they get a larger cut of the pie and have more power over rule making is insulting to all the rest of F1.
They already have too much power and say. That needs to end and if they choose to leave, then so be it.

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NathanOlder
48
Joined: 02 Mar 2012, 10:05
Location: Kent

Re: F1 without Ferrari?

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Lets have a breakaway series run by Bernie, :P

How would that look

No Halo,
1pm start times
Grid Girls
Ferrari vs Mercedes
Classic looking Logo's
Classic sounding theme's

:lol:

Image
GoLandoGo
Lewis v2.0
King George has arrived.

New found love for GT racing with Assetto Corsa Competizione on PS5 & PC

Ennis
2
Joined: 16 Jun 2014, 12:47

Re: F1 without Ferrari?

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3jawchuck wrote:
25 Mar 2018, 23:41
strad wrote:
25 Mar 2018, 23:36
Ferrari has been integral with F1 but the idea that F1 can't get along without them is ludicrous.
The very idea that they get a larger cut of the pie and have more power over rule making is insulting to all the rest of F1.
They already have too much power and say. That needs to end and if they choose to leave, then so be it.
Big teams have engrained advantages already built in. Ferrari are going to have strong allies in Haas, for example.

Being handed additional advantages beyond the obvious built in advantages is just ridiculous.