Fernando Alonso announces his retirement.

[F1NAC]

Well, except Button thanks to the disastrous Honda PU, Lewis is the only team mate to beat Alonso in 15 seasons, and that was without scoring one single point more despite the obvious support from the team to Lewis, so Alonso perfectly know how how fast he is.

Vettel OTOH, he almost beat him twice with a 5 tenths slower car, first ruined by fool Ferrari strategists, and second by Grosjean clash at Spa. Without these two incidents wich were out of his control, he´d be a four times Champion and Vettel only two, despite driving less dominant cars than Seb.

What about jumping the start in China, not giving Kubica back the place in Silverstone, having a dire Belgium GP and then crashing out in 2010?

All drivers make mistakes, specially when their car is half a second slower and his average grid position is around 5th but even so he´s fighting for the title... btw, can you point me to some other WDC contender who had to start that back so frequently because of the lack of car potential on saturdays?

Remember Alonso is a very good qualifier, even Massa was, and his average grid position was always several positions behind Alonso.

What Alonso did in 2010 and 2012 was astonishing, and without those problems wich were out of his control he´d have beaten Vettel, even with the mistakes you mention

If RB had that reliability as ALonso had then the championship would end much sooner. F10 wasn't a dog of a car and both F10 and F2012 have bullet proof reliability.

[Andres125sx]

What about jumping the start in China, not giving Kubica back the place in Silverstone, having a dire Belgium GP and then crashing out in 2010?

All drivers make mistakes, specially when their car is half a second slower and his average grid position is around 5th but even so he´s fighting for the title... btw, can you point me to some other WDC contender who had to start that back so frequently because of the lack of car potential on saturdays?

Remember Alonso is a very good qualifier, even Massa was, and his average grid position was always several positions behind Alonso.

What Alonso did in 2010 and 2012 was astonishing, and without those problems wich were out of his control he´d have beaten Vettel, even with the mistakes you mention

In China and Silverstone he was 3rd on the grid, so it was still in his hands. The Ferrari had 2 poles to Mclaren's one. Alonso's average qualifying position was 4.7, Hamilton's was 4.9 and Button's was 6.9.

Weird comparison, it was Vettel who won the title and the one Alonso fought with. Yeah McLaren drivers average position was similar or worse, and neither of them were title contenders for the whole season. Alonso was.

Alonso was forced to take risks at the starts, if Vettel kept the lead in first lap the race was done.

[Gaz.]

All drivers make mistakes, specially when their car is half a second slower and his average grid position is around 5th but even so he´s fighting for the title... btw, can you point me to some other WDC contender who had to start that back so frequently because of the lack of car potential on saturdays?

Remember Alonso is a very good qualifier, even Massa was, and his average grid position was always several positions behind Alonso.

What Alonso did in 2010 and 2012 was astonishing, and without those problems wich were out of his control he´d have beaten Vettel, even with the mistakes you mention

In China and Silverstone he was 3rd on the grid, so it was still in his hands. The Ferrari had 2 poles to Mclaren's one. Alonso's average qualifying position was 4.7, Hamilton's was 4.9 and Button's was 6.9.

Weird comparison, it was Vettel who won the title and the one Alonso fought with. Yeah McLaren drivers average position was similar or worse, and neither of them were title contenders for the whole season. Alonso was.

Alonso was forced to take risks at the starts, if Vettel kept the lead in first lap the race was done.

It's not a weird comparison when both Mclaren drivers lead the 2010 championship at some point and both were in contention until the penultimate (Button) and final (Hamilton) round, the last round being a four way shootout between Alonso, Webber, Hamilton and Vettel.

[Manoah2u]

'Coz a media article said so

i just realized this is nt the silly season 2020 thread though

[Andres125sx]

In China and Silverstone he was 3rd on the grid, so it was still in his hands. The Ferrari had 2 poles to Mclaren's one. Alonso's average qualifying position was 4.7, Hamilton's was 4.9 and Button's was 6.9.

Weird comparison, it was Vettel who won the title and the one Alonso fought with. Yeah McLaren drivers average position was similar or worse, and neither of them were title contenders for the whole season. Alonso was.

Alonso was forced to take risks at the starts, if Vettel kept the lead in first lap the race was done.

It's not a weird comparison when both Mclaren drivers lead the 2010 championship at some point and both were in contention until the penultimate (Button) and final (Hamilton) round, the last round being a four way shootout between Alonso, Webber, Hamilton and Vettel.

I was thinking about 2012

If my memory serve me well (probably not), McLaren was a very fast car in 2010, with some reliability problems, similar to RBR, so they never had the need to take risks at the start because they had the speed

2010 WCC:
1 RBR RENAULT 498
2 MCLAREN MERCEDES 454
3 FERRARI 396

When was the last time 3rd car in the grid fought for the title till last race?

[Gaz.]

Weird comparison, it was Vettel who won the title and the one Alonso fought with. Yeah McLaren drivers average position was similar or worse, and neither of them were title contenders for the whole season. Alonso was.

Alonso was forced to take risks at the starts, if Vettel kept the lead in first lap the race was done.

It's not a weird comparison when both Mclaren drivers lead the 2010 championship at some point and both were in contention until the penultimate (Button) and final (Hamilton) round, the last round being a four way shootout between Alonso, Webber, Hamilton and Vettel.

I was thinking about 2012

If my memory serve me well (probably not), McLaren was a very fast car in 2010, with some reliability problems, similar to RBR, so they never had the need to take risks at the start because they had the speed

2010 WCC:
1 RBR RENAULT 498
2 MCLAREN MERCEDES 454
3 FERRARI 396

When was the last time 3rd car in the grid fought for the title till last race?

You know damn well we were discussing 2010, read the previous posts which also gives the average qualifying positions of Alonso, Button and Hamilton of which Alonso qualified higher over the season.

[Andres125sx]

It's not a weird comparison when both Mclaren drivers lead the 2010 championship at some point and both were in contention until the penultimate (Button) and final (Hamilton) round, the last round being a four way shootout between Alonso, Webber, Hamilton and Vettel.

I was thinking about 2012

If my memory serve me well (probably not), McLaren was a very fast car in 2010, with some reliability problems, similar to RBR, so they never had the need to take risks at the start because they had the speed

2010 WCC:
1 RBR RENAULT 498
2 MCLAREN MERCEDES 454
3 FERRARI 396

When was the last time 3rd car in the grid fought for the title till last race?

You know damn well we were discussing 2010

Actually not, it was only you who was talking about 2010 exclusively, I wasn´t, read what I´ve been saying:

Well, except Button thanks to the disastrous Honda PU, Lewis is the only team mate to beat Alonso in 15 seasons, and that was without scoring one single point more despite the obvious support from the team to Lewis, so Alonso perfectly know how how fast he is.

Vettel OTOH, he almost beat him twice with a 5 tenths slower car, first ruined by fool Ferrari strategists, and second by Grosjean clash at Spa. Without these two incidents wich were out of his control, he´d be a four times Champion and Vettel only two, despite driving less dominant cars than Seb.

What about jumping the start in China, not giving Kubica back the place in Silverstone, having a dire Belgium GP and then crashing out in 2010?

All drivers make mistakes, specially when their car is half a second slower and his average grid position is around 5th but even so he´s fighting for the title... btw, can you point me to some other WDC contender who had to start that back so frequently because of the lack of car potential on saturdays?

Remember Alonso is a very good qualifier, even Massa was, and his average grid position was always several positions behind Alonso.

What Alonso did in 2010 and 2012 was astonishing, and without those problems wich were out of his control he´d have beaten Vettel, even with the mistakes you mention

About this

read the previous posts which also gives the average qualifying positions of Alonso, Button and Hamilton of which Alonso qualified higher over the season.

You actually made a mistake I´ve been able to detect, Alonso did not participate in 2010 Monaco qualifying, but you still divided the addition of his 18 results by 19 GPs, getting that 4.63 average position.

Doing it correctly Alonso average postion is 4.9 , and Lewis 4.9, yes the same (4.889 vs 4.894)

[senja]

Weird comparison, it was Vettel who won the title and the one Alonso fought with. Yeah McLaren drivers average position was similar or worse, and neither of them were title contenders for the whole season. Alonso was.

Alonso was forced to take risks at the starts, if Vettel kept the lead in first lap the race was done.

It's not a weird comparison when both Mclaren drivers lead the 2010 championship at some point and both were in contention until the penultimate (Button) and final (Hamilton) round, the last round being a four way shootout between Alonso, Webber, Hamilton and Vettel.

I was thinking about 2012

If my memory serve me well (probably not), McLaren was a very fast car in 2010, with some reliability problems, similar to RBR, so they never had the need to take risks at the start because they had the speed

2010 WCC:
1 RBR RENAULT 498
2 MCLAREN MERCEDES 454
3 FERRARI 396

When was the last time 3rd car in the grid fought for the title till last race?

That does not mean Ferrari was 3rd car. They just not have 2 good drivers. RBR had two good drivers. Both fighting for WDC till the end. McLaren had two good drivers. Both fighting for WDC almost to the end. And Ferrari had only one good driver...

[Andres125sx]

Yeah now sudenly the competition where cars are 80% of the perfomance depend on some driver perfomance...

Massa has never been a top class driver, but Webber wasn´t either and as you say, he fought for the title till last race... because he was driving the best car by far

WCC is not a coincidente, F1 depend on the cars so WCC is the most realistic table to look at.

[McHonda]

What about jumping the start in China, not giving Kubica back the place in Silverstone, having a dire Belgium GP and then crashing out in 2010?

All drivers make mistakes, specially when their car is half a second slower and his average grid position is around 5th but even so he´s fighting for the title... btw, can you point me to some other WDC contender who had to start that back so frequently because of the lack of car potential on saturdays?

Remember Alonso is a very good qualifier, even Massa was, and his average grid position was always several positions behind Alonso.

What Alonso did in 2010 and 2012 was astonishing, and without those problems wich were out of his control he´d have beaten Vettel, even with the mistakes you mention

If RB had that reliability as ALonso had then the championship would end much sooner. F10 wasn't a dog of a car and both F10 and F2012 have bullet proof reliability.

And if the Ferrari's had the RB pace in either year it would've ended even sooner.

[McHonda]

Yeah now sudenly the competition where cars are 80% of the perfomance depend on some driver perfomance...

Massa has never been a top class driver, but Webber wasn´t either and as you say, he fought for the title till last race... because he was driving the best car by far

WCC is not a coincidente, F1 depend on the cars so WCC is the most realistic table to look at.

The Macca and the Ferrari were pretty similar over the year, not often at the same venue but it pretty much evened out across the year and Macca finished higher in the WCC because they had a stronger line up. You'd take Button over Massa in a heartbeat.

Everyone made mistakes that year as I recall, it was hardly a standout year in that regard. Everyone seemed a bit jumpy, Seb because of his age,experience and excitement at the performance of his car, Nando because he was new at Ferrari and keen to make an impression with a sizeable car deficit to Red Bull to overcome and Lewis and Button had the latter car pace factor plus the toughest inter team battle and maybe a nose put out of joint in Lewis's case with Button being brought in.

I think Lewis performed a bit better than Alonso overall though and was the best driver that year all things considered. Alonso had the best single weekend though in Singapore. I see no reason why Red Bull's advantage suddenly disappeared on a classic chassis track so to Grand Chelem a weekend in a car that may well have not been the quickest is pretty special.

[F1NAC]

All drivers make mistakes, specially when their car is half a second slower and his average grid position is around 5th but even so he´s fighting for the title... btw, can you point me to some other WDC contender who had to start that back so frequently because of the lack of car potential on saturdays?

Remember Alonso is a very good qualifier, even Massa was, and his average grid position was always several positions behind Alonso.

What Alonso did in 2010 and 2012 was astonishing, and without those problems wich were out of his control he´d have beaten Vettel, even with the mistakes you mention

If RB had that reliability as ALonso had then the championship would end much sooner. F10 wasn't a dog of a car and both F10 and F2012 have bullet proof reliability.

And if the Ferrari's had the RB pace in either year it would've ended even sooner.

Sure sure. Glory glory Alonso. Guess what, thats only speculation.

[McHonda]

If RB had that reliability as ALonso had then the championship would end much sooner. F10 wasn't a dog of a car and both F10 and F2012 have bullet proof reliability.

And if the Ferrari's had the RB pace in either year it would've ended even sooner.

Sure sure. Glory glory Alonso. Guess what, thats only speculation.

Pretty obvious speculation though. Especially now they've had a common team mate.

[GoranF1]

Alonso just took a sabatical due to current Mclaren form. He is still hungry, he will seek Indy 500 crown, but will probably look to catch a top seat in 2020.
Either whit Mclaren if they recover or more likely as Leclerk teammate in Ferrari after one more poor season for four-time-fraud Vettel in 2019.

[Morteza]