Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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Are Schumacher's WDC and Win records under threat of being eclipsed?

Will the 7 WDC record be broken?
6
3%
Will the 91 Victory record be broken?
44
26%
Neither record will be broken.
20
12%
Both records will be broken.
102
59%
 
Total votes: 172

sosic2121
sosic2121
19
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2016 11:14 am

Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

Post

I have forgotten what happened in Silverstone.
In Baku they had the same issue,and Rosberg found the solution much quicker than Hamilton. That's all I wanted to say.

Wass85
Wass85
-1
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:11 pm

Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

Post

Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 8:49 am
Wass85 wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 12:18 am


Yes he did but you don't think Schumacher being over 40 has some bearing on that?
No.
I think you're wrong there tbh especially when he'd been out the sport for years. The latter though probably affected him more than his age.

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
642
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

Post

sosic2121 wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 8:36 am
izzy wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 5:58 pm
what's the evidence he understood the car better?
IMO it was Canada 2014 and Baku 2016.
In Canada they both had issue with breakes. IIRC Rosbreg managed to finish 2nd without MGUK, also testament how superior Merc PU was that season.

Baku happened when it was forbidden for engineers to instruct drivers what to do. Rosberg easily changed setup of the car while Hamilton just didn't know what to do.

"So was Rosberg, who is known to be the superior engineer among the Mercedes drivers, merely a bit cleverer? Niki Lauda, Mercedes’ nonexecutive chairman, suggested so when he said that both drivers had the same problem but the German was quicker dealing with it." article from The guardian
This could be indicative of Rosberg's "Year of the Big Push" where he immersed himself totally in the job of winning the title. It's possible that he just spent more time going through the systems with his engineers and remembered something from that during the race. The car's systems are so complicated that he couldn't sit there during the heat of a race and thing "well, that bit's connected to that bit which does this, so if I twiddle this and then that, it'll make that do this" in response to a random failure.

Again, that's "well done" to Rosberg for being better prepared. And it's an indication of what is required to win against a guy who is usually just a little bit better, as a driver, almost all the time. Taking that better understanding of the car to help offset the better natural speed of your competitor is "a good thing to do" and well done to him and his engineers for doing so.

I'd guess that Rosberg probably had more interest in the technology than Hamilton did right from the start. He apparently enjoyed maths and the sciences at school. Hamilton appeared to enjoy sport at school. Ron Dennis made Hamilton finish his education as a condition of helping him in racing, if I remember correctly. I doubt Rosberg needed such encouragment.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
642
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

Post

Wass85 wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 9:03 am
Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 8:49 am
Wass85 wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 12:18 am


Yes he did but you don't think Schumacher being over 40 has some bearing on that?
No.
I think you're wrong there tbh especially when he'd been out the sport for years. The latter though probably affected him more than his age.
Sadly, we can't ask him what he thinks about it. :cry:
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
642
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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sosic2121 wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 8:56 am
I have forgotten what happened in Silverstone.
In Baku they had the same issue,and Rosberg found the solution much quicker than Hamilton. That's all I wanted to say.
The team gave Rosberg help over the radio and as a result, the stewards gave him a 10 second penalty which meant he lost 2nd place and came 3rd behind Hamilton and Max.

The rules were changed because some drivers were been extensively coached from the pitwall. Ironically, Rosberg was one of the drivers that was being coached. I remember him asking where Hamilton was quicker, corner by corner, and his engineer telling him lots of info and giving suggestions to brake here or turn in later there.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

User avatar
izzy
69
Joined: Sun May 26, 2019 9:28 pm

Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

Post

sosic2121 wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 8:36 am
izzy wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 5:58 pm
what's the evidence he understood the car better?
IMO it was Canada 2014 and Baku 2016.
In Canada they both had issue with breakes. IIRC Rosbreg managed to finish 2nd without MGUK, also testament how superior Merc PU was that season.

Baku happened when it was forbidden for engineers to instruct drivers what to do. Rosberg easily changed setup of the car while Hamilton just didn't know what to do.

"So was Rosberg, who is known to be the superior engineer among the Mercedes drivers, merely a bit cleverer? Niki Lauda, Mercedes’ nonexecutive chairman, suggested so when he said that both drivers had the same problem but the German was quicker dealing with it." article from The guardian
Oh okay, rosberg was more 'academic' tho Baku wasn't about that it was the engine changing its modes automatically every few laps, and one mode was faulty. With rosberg the change happened just as he was doing something so he noticed and manually changed to the next mode, while with Lewis it changed without him noticing so all he knew was the clipping

Niki also said Lewis trashed his hotel room i wouldn't take what he used to say literally always! He could just as easily have been teasing rosberg

Anyway I'm not sure this amounts to understanding the car better, it's more different kinds of intelligence they had. Lots of people used to say JB was more intelligent but it's not binary like that, there's a video somewhere I'll have a look in a bit. Lewis' mind is very fast for example, but i think he's a bit dyslexic

Wass85
Wass85
-1
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:11 pm

Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

Post

Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 9:13 am
sosic2121 wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 8:56 am
I have forgotten what happened in Silverstone.
In Baku they had the same issue,and Rosberg found the solution much quicker than Hamilton. That's all I wanted to say.
The team gave Rosberg help over the radio and as a result, the stewards gave him a 10 second penalty which meant he lost 2nd place and came 3rd behind Hamilton and Max.

The rules were changed because some drivers were been extensively coached from the pitwall. Ironically, Rosberg was one of the drivers that was being coached. I remember him asking where Hamilton was quicker, corner by corner, and his engineer telling him lots of info and giving suggestions to brake here or turn in later there.
From what I recall Hamilton would have been better off having received the penalty than trundling along left to his own devices, I'm sure he lost more than 10 secs at Baku.

User avatar
izzy
69
Joined: Sun May 26, 2019 9:28 pm

Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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Here's a fun video with Jenson. They're just playing around but you can feel if anything Lewis knows his way around it a bit better

Wass85
Wass85
-1
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:11 pm

Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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izzy wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 9:42 am
Here's a fun video with Jenson. They're just playing around but you can feel if anything Lewis knows his way around it a bit better
On track though Button rang rings around Hamilton when reading a race.

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
642
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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Wass85 wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 9:58 am

On track though Button rang rings around Hamilton when reading a race.
That's one of those throw away lines again. The sort of thing the media like to say but then not back up in real way.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

Wass85
Wass85
-1
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:11 pm

Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

Post

Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:06 am
Wass85 wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 9:58 am

On track though Button rang rings around Hamilton when reading a race.
That's one of those throw away lines again. The sort of thing the media like to say but then not back up in real way.
Just look at the calls over the 3 years they were paired together. Button was much more willing to use his own instinct and make calls for himself, be that in race situations or setups.

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
642
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

Post

Wass85 wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:14 am
Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:06 am
Wass85 wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 9:58 am

On track though Button rang rings around Hamilton when reading a race.
That's one of those throw away lines again. The sort of thing the media like to say but then not back up in real way.
Just look at the calls over the 3 years they were paired together. Button was much more willing to use his own instinct and make calls for himself, be that in race situations or setups.
Unless you've got the complete radio transcripts for every race for both drivers, you don't know who decided what and when.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

Wass85
Wass85
-1
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:11 pm

Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

Post

Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:35 am
Wass85 wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:14 am
Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:06 am

That's one of those throw away lines again. The sort of thing the media like to say but then not back up in real way.
Just look at the calls over the 3 years they were paired together. Button was much more willing to use his own instinct and make calls for himself, be that in race situations or setups.
Unless you've got the complete radio transcripts for every race for both drivers, you don't know who decided what and when.
Ok i don't have all the evidence but seeing them partnered you get to see the picture.

User avatar
PlatinumZealot
474
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:45 am

Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

Post

sosic2121 wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 8:36 am
izzy wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 5:58 pm
what's the evidence he understood the car better?
IMO it was Canada 2014 and Baku 2016.
In Canada they both had issue with breakes. IIRC Rosbreg managed to finish 2nd without MGUK, also testament how superior Merc PU was that season.

Baku happened when it was forbidden for engineers to instruct drivers what to do. Rosberg easily changed setup of the car while Hamilton just didn't know what to do.

"So was Rosberg, who is known to be the superior engineer among the Mercedes drivers, merely a bit cleverer? Niki Lauda, Mercedes’ nonexecutive chairman, suggested so when he said that both drivers had the same problem but the German was quicker dealing with it." article from The guardian
Lack of research again.
Lewis' Engineer adressed to the public what really happened. After the problem with Lewis, which was lieterally a problem of confusing menus and commands, worse than using DOS, they figured out what to do so that when the problem showed up on Rosberg's car they could then tell him easily the exact menus to fix the problem.

Again. Do your research on "dossier gate" and "switching mechanics" gate before stating that Rosberg understood the car more than Lewis. It is a very weak claim when there are races like Monaco 2016.
Not driving a Mercedes? Work harder!

Manoah2u
Manoah2u
416
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:07 pm

Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

Post

Wass85 wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:14 am
Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:06 am
Wass85 wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 9:58 am

On track though Button rang rings around Hamilton when reading a race.
That's one of those throw away lines again. The sort of thing the media like to say but then not back up in real way.
Just look at the calls over the 3 years they were paired together. Button was much more willing to use his own instinct and make calls for himself, be that in race situations or setups.
I agree, i've always been a great fan of Button and i'm honestly happy he got a title,
to be honest, it was the most enjoyable title i've seen winning in a long, long time.

Yes, Hamilton definately is a better racer. So is Schumacher and i very much believe so is Alonso.
Though it's very much true that a good deal of his success was down to the car, but let's face it,
isn't that always the case? Yes he was the right guy at the right place, that is a good deal of luck there,
but he did manage to put it in a title.

He held his own against Hamilton in the same team with the same car and he did quite well against Alonso too,
so i honestly feel that is a lot to say for him.

And i do fully agree that Jenson's pure 'speed defecit' compared to for example Lewis, was greatly made up by his skill to read the race, lets say tactics. I'd concider Button more the Prost, and Lewis more the Senna.
Hamilton learned a lot from Button, and it undoubtedly added to Hamilton's current success, making him a more complete driver.
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.