Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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Are Schumacher's WDC and Win records under threat of being eclipsed?

Will the 7 WDC record be broken?
6
3%
Will the 91 Victory record be broken?
44
26%
Neither record will be broken.
20
12%
Both records will be broken.
102
59%
 
Total votes: 172

Wass85
Wass85
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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Manoah2u wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 3:50 pm
Wass85 wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:14 am
Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:06 am

That's one of those throw away lines again. The sort of thing the media like to say but then not back up in real way.
Just look at the calls over the 3 years they were paired together. Button was much more willing to use his own instinct and make calls for himself, be that in race situations or setups.
I agree, i've always been a great fan of Button and i'm honestly happy he got a title,
to be honest, it was the most enjoyable title i've seen winning in a long, long time.

Yes, Hamilton definately is a better racer. So is Schumacher and i very much believe so is Alonso.
Though it's very much true that a good deal of his success was down to the car, but let's face it,
isn't that always the case? Yes he was the right guy at the right place, that is a good deal of luck there,
but he did manage to put it in a title.

He held his own against Hamilton in the same team with the same car and he did quite well against Alonso too,
so i honestly feel that is a lot to say for him.

And i do fully agree that Jenson's pure 'speed defecit' compared to for example Lewis, was greatly made up by his skill to read the race, lets say tactics. I'd concider Button more the Prost, and Lewis more the Senna.
Hamilton learned a lot from Button, and it undoubtedly added to Hamilton's current success, making him a more complete driver.
Yep fully agree with everything you said. I expected Hamilton to blow Button away but it just never happened the way I thought it would.

I don't know if it took Button to become world champion or to be partnered with Lewis before he kicked up another gear but race pace wise he troubled Hamilton the most out of any teammate since Alonso.

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
639
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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Wass85 wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 4:40 pm


Yep fully agree with everything you said. I expected Hamilton to blow Button away but it just never happened the way I thought it would.

I don't know if it took Button to become world champion or to be partnered with Lewis before he kicked up another gear but race pace wise he troubled Hamilton the most out of any teammate since Alonso.
I think that what it shows is that without team orders, a driver needs a rabbit in the other car to make them look amazing. Team orders and/or an average team mate equals "the guy's a god". Two top level drivers (albeit with different individual strengths) without team orders means that shining is hard work and, if one does it, then that shows some level of achievement higher than the guy with the obedient team mate.

Everyone agrees that Alonso, Button, Rosberg are top level drivers (alright, some think Rosberg wasn't but...). To compete successfully against all three is not the sign of an average driver. It's the sign of a top driver. That's why Hamilton is held in high regard by many who understand the sport - he's had to beat top team mates for a good proportion of his F1 career. Sure, Heikki wasn't up there, and Bottas is looking "top tier - 1", but then Hamilton's had to take the fight to a strong Ferrari challenge recently. It's their fault that things went the way they did and Hamilton came out on top. It all reinforces Hamilton's place at the top table.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

Wass85
Wass85
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Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:11 pm

Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 5:29 pm
Wass85 wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 4:40 pm


Yep fully agree with everything you said. I expected Hamilton to blow Button away but it just never happened the way I thought it would.

I don't know if it took Button to become world champion or to be partnered with Lewis before he kicked up another gear but race pace wise he troubled Hamilton the most out of any teammate since Alonso.
I think that what it shows is that without team orders, a driver needs a rabbit in the other car to make them look amazing. Team orders and/or an average team mate equals "the guy's a god". Two top level drivers (albeit with different individual strengths) without team orders means that shining is hard work and, if one does it, then that shows some level of achievement higher than the guy with the obedient team mate.

Everyone agrees that Alonso, Button, Rosberg are top level drivers (alright, some think Rosberg wasn't but...). To compete successfully against all three is not the sign of an average driver. It's the sign of a top driver. That's why Hamilton is held in high regard by many who understand the sport - he's had to beat top team mates for a good proportion of his F1 career. Sure, Heikki wasn't up there, and Bottas is looking "top tier - 1", but then Hamilton's had to take the fight to a strong Ferrari challenge recently. It's their fault that things went the way they did and Hamilton came out on top. It all reinforces Hamilton's place at the top table.
I don't know tbh, barring the 2009 season Button didn't look anything special and only stood out then because of the Brawn car.

Maybe Button was a massive under achiever in his earlier career and only switched on once he'd won his title.

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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Wass85 wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 6:27 pm

I don't know tbh, barring the 2009 season Button didn't look anything special and only stood out then because of the Brawn car.

Maybe Button was a massive under achiever in his earlier career and only switched on once he'd won his title.
Ah, yet another way to try to say "Hamilton is rubbish". You're transparent but you are a trier, I'll give you that! :lol:
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

Wass85
Wass85
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Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:11 pm

Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 8:07 pm
Wass85 wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 6:27 pm

I don't know tbh, barring the 2009 season Button didn't look anything special and only stood out then because of the Brawn car.

Maybe Button was a massive under achiever in his earlier career and only switched on once he'd won his title.
Ah, yet another way to try to say "Hamilton is rubbish". You're transparent but you are a trier, I'll give you that! :lol:
Listen I'm not the only one who believed he would smash him. I can recall the BBC team basically saying it was career suicide for Button, what I shock we were in for.

Wass85
Wass85
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Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:11 pm

Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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I open my mouth and Daniel Ricciardo has to step in.... 😂

https://www.planetf1.com/news/jenson-bu ... lton-2011/

Manoah2u
Manoah2u
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Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:07 pm

Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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Wass85 wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:21 pm
I open my mouth and Daniel Ricciardo has to step in.... 😂

https://www.planetf1.com/news/jenson-bu ... lton-2011/
Great article.
I agree to some comments, that Canada 2011 was one of the best races ever.
It was a fantasticly thrilling race, and indeed, to see Button come back to win the GP,
after ending up all the way in the back was just mesmerizing and reminiscent of Schumacher.
He also managed to clearly crack Vettel after putting him under pressure, from a distance even.
I think Daniel actually has some Button comparisons to be honest.
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.

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coaster
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Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2012 4:10 am

Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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Schumachers acheivments, Buttons, Hamiltons, Rosbergs, etc all have one thing in common that is being in the right car at the right time. Talent got them there, others 'woulda, coulda, shoulda' but didnt never cut it and if Hamilton makes it then good luck to him, he rightfully deserves the rewards (even if his glam boy image irks me).
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Wass85
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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coaster wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 1:16 pm
Schumachers acheivments, Buttons, Hamiltons, Rosbergs, etc all have one thing in common that is being in the right car at the right time. Talent got them there, others 'woulda, coulda, shoulda' but didnt never cut it and if Hamilton makes it then good luck to him, he rightfully deserves the rewards (even if his glam boy image irks me).
Yep, all the best drivers have to be in the right car at the right time.

The question is what would happen with the right car if it didn't have the right driver?

Schumacher stated he would have won the 95 title easier in the Ferrari after he tested it. Sweet talking the new bosses or any truth to it, who knows......

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coaster
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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I'd say Schu was sweet talking, i heard made the effort to remember the names of mechanics family members, attention to detail like that would have boosted morale and gained him extra efforts.
He had it all sussed out.
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bill shoe
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Location: Dallas, Texas, USA

Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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coaster wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 2:00 pm
I'd say Schu was sweet talking, i heard made the effort to remember the names of mechanics family members, attention to detail like that would have boosted morale and gained him extra efforts.
He had it all sussed out.
Yea, anyone can be a Schumacher fan or an Shumacher hater (I mostly qualify in that group), but there is no disputing the work ethic and focus he put into his work. He never criticized his team, he massively raised the bar for physical fitness, he even put effort into working the details about mechanics and their families like you say.

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GPR-A
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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Wass85 wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 1:36 pm

The question is what would happen with the right car if it didn't have the right driver?

Schumacher stated he would have won the 95 title easier in the Ferrari after he tested it. Sweet talking the new bosses or any truth to it, who knows......
Brawn had said in one of his interviews that, Schumacher could have won the 1996 title if he would have continued driving for Benetton as the B196 was still a contender. Jean Alesi who was driving the B196 in 1996, got 8 podiums and couple of 4th place finishes in that car. That shows, even if a car is capable and on par, it does require a good driver to extract the full potential and take it to rightful results.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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The 2007 and 2008 Ferraris were likely dominant cars, that ended up in the hands of good but not great drivers too.

Alonso would go on to utterly dominate those drivers when they worked alongside him (or worked for him! ) at Ferrari.

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Airshifter
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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I was surprised when I voted where the majority vote was, even though I was in that majority! I guess most have faith that Merc will stay high enough near the top for the major rules changes.


As for all the greatest of all time, who is better, who got support, etc..... in the end most of it is opinion. That means all of us.


But my opinion is that even now, Lewis has accomplished as much if not more than Schumacher. Overall he has probably had cars as good if not better, but he has had to actually drive against much better team mates, has had much less favoritism within the team, and is an overall cleaner driver IMO.


Once again, just an opinion. And overall even that is hard to form, since differing regs and cars make things tricky. Though he often had clear team advantage, Schumcher was no doubt fast, and was able to pull off some good moves. And it seemed that both Schumacher and Lewis learned to minimize on track risks as they matured in their racecraft. But as an example of regs changes impacting that, Schuey became a master at in and out laps for overtaking through pit stops. Lewis has won his titles in an era where pit stops are limited to tires, and we don't have aggressive tires or a tire war. So he has had to become a master at often playing the long game.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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I was reading again about Hank Aaron today. Someone mention a cross handed grip and I googled it brought me to Hank.

Anyway. Hank Broke Babe Ruth's home run record. Babe Ruth was a home name in the US. Everboy who played baseball imagine he was Babe. He was a revered legend. I am not American and Im not baseball fan but his name was global. I liked the candy bar and the baseball movies! Anyway! When Aron was approaching the record he became sort of the bad guy for various reasons. He was increasingly scrutinized and assaulted by fans and media, he was sent threats even! Of course this added to the pressure. Perhaps Lewis will be affected by more pressure as he approaches the record too?

There are some interesting parallels to Babe Ruth, Hank Aaron, Michael Schumacher and Lewis Hamilton, buy also some major differences. Babe, the established Icon, the God, the home name. Schumacher. Hank the enigmatic minority player, going against the establishment - Lewis. I think though.. Schumacher was not universally loved... And Lewis while enigmatic at one point... Is not really so anymore. He is actually quite outspoken and runs with celebrities and such. The other thing is playing baseball is not too much affected by equipment.. Motorsport is the total opposite - so supporters and detractors alike are free to subjectivise who was really better. Even after the record is broken - and MSC endured this with Senna / fangio etc- it is still out in the air who was really the GOAT.

Anyway... It will be interesting to see how the media and fans will react.. And how Lewis himself with react to the pressure.