Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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Are Schumacher's WDC and Win records under threat of being eclipsed?

Will the 7 WDC record be broken?
6
3%
Will the 91 Victory record be broken?
44
26%
Neither record will be broken.
20
12%
Both records will be broken.
102
59%
 
Total votes: 172

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El Scorchio
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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Wass85 wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 2:01 pm
El Scorchio wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:58 pm
Wass85 wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:51 pm


The reality though is Hamilton is only slightly faster than Rosberg over one lap, they're basically that close you are really splitting hairs between them.

What Hamilton excels at is that extra bit of talent when he's in for a shot of the win, once he smells blood he is relentlessly fast and rarely makes a mistake.
Not necessarily. Those few tenths or even hundredths can make an absolutely massive difference between being first or not. Teams spend millions of dollars and huge resource searching for any component to give an extra tenth of a second a lap. Hamilton is that extra component and I'm sure to MB, he's been worth every penny of his salary.
Have you got the data on those two?

Was it less than a tenth faster or just over?
Nope, and feel free to dig that out if you want to prove or disprove whatever you wish. But regardless of the margin he's faster, which is really all that's important.

e30ernest
e30ernest
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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El Scorchio wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:44 pm
Also, do they win the WCC all those times without Hamilton? There's chance they may not, and do they win WDC in 2017 and 2018?
Not perfect, but maybe we can look at who came in 2nd place behind him these years:

2019 - Bottas (Merc) 87 points behind Ham, 48 ahead Vers
2018 - Vettel (Ferrari) 88 points behind Ham, 69 ahead Rai
2017 - Vettel (Ferrari) 46 behind Ham, 12 ahead Bot
2016 - Ham (Merc) so I guess this counts as a Merc win. Ham 5 points behind Ros, 124 ahead of Ric
2015 - Rosberg (Merc) 59 behind Ham, 44 ahead of Vet
2014 - Rosberg (Merc) 67 behind Ham, 79 ahead of Ric


So it looks like without Ham, the WDC would have gone to Vettel for 2017 and 2018. Bottas probably wouldn't have gotten the WDC since Vettel would likely be ahead based on the points disparity (2017 would be close).

Kinda shows how good Rosberg is against Bottas IMO. 2014-2016 were basically Mercedes 1-2 on the WDC. Bottas only got 2nd through on 2019. Maybe the competition was closer the past 3 seasons, but Bottas being just 3rd on 2017, and 5th in 2018 just doesn't look that good.

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diffuser
240
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Location: Montreal

Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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e30ernest wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 2:04 pm
El Scorchio wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:44 pm
Also, do they win the WCC all those times without Hamilton? There's chance they may not, and do they win WDC in 2017 and 2018?
Not perfect, but maybe we can look at who came in 2nd place behind him these years:

2019 - Bottas (Merc) 87 points behind Ham, 48 ahead Vers
2018 - Vettel (Ferrari) 88 points behind Ham, 69 ahead Rai
2017 - Vettel (Ferrari) 46 behind Ham, 12 ahead Bot
2016 - Ham (Merc) so I guess this counts as a Merc win. Ham 5 points behind Ros, 124 ahead of Ric
2015 - Rosberg (Merc) 59 behind Ham, 44 ahead of Vet
2014 - Rosberg (Merc) 67 behind Ham, 79 ahead of Ric


So it looks like without Ham, the WDC would have gone to Vettel for 2017 and 2018. Bottas probably wouldn't have gotten the WDC since Vettel would likely be ahead based on the points disparity (2017 would be close).

Kinda shows how good Rosberg is against Bottas IMO. 2014-2016 were basically Mercedes 1-2 on the WDC. Bottas only got 2nd through on 2019. Maybe the competition was closer the past 3 seasons, but Bottas being just 3rd on 2017, and 5th in 2018 just doesn't look that good.
You can't say that. Lets say they ran some guy that always finished behind either Bottas or Rosberg. That ups Bottas/Rosberg points. They probably finsh with the same or more points than Hamilton for the given year.

The records are going to be his but does it have any corelation to how good he is ? no.

He'll keep the records forever in my opinion cause with the changes coming. It will be hard to repeat in the coming F1 envirnoment. All those titles were purchased by Merc. They out spent everyone with the possible exception to Ferrari. So really it was a race against Ferrari (4 drivers). Well really 3 cause Rai was was a driver choosen to finish behind Vettel. All the other teams where in another series.

I kind of wish they had another podium for the 4th 5th and 6th Drivers. That's where the real excitement is and we could ignore the bore up front.

e30ernest
e30ernest
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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diffuser wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 3:14 pm
e30ernest wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 2:04 pm
El Scorchio wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:44 pm
Also, do they win the WCC all those times without Hamilton? There's chance they may not, and do they win WDC in 2017 and 2018?
Not perfect, but maybe we can look at who came in 2nd place behind him these years:

2019 - Bottas (Merc) 87 points behind Ham, 48 ahead Vers
2018 - Vettel (Ferrari) 88 points behind Ham, 69 ahead Rai
2017 - Vettel (Ferrari) 46 behind Ham, 12 ahead Bot
2016 - Ham (Merc) so I guess this counts as a Merc win. Ham 5 points behind Ros, 124 ahead of Ric
2015 - Rosberg (Merc) 59 behind Ham, 44 ahead of Vet
2014 - Rosberg (Merc) 67 behind Ham, 79 ahead of Ric


So it looks like without Ham, the WDC would have gone to Vettel for 2017 and 2018. Bottas probably wouldn't have gotten the WDC since Vettel would likely be ahead based on the points disparity (2017 would be close).

Kinda shows how good Rosberg is against Bottas IMO. 2014-2016 were basically Mercedes 1-2 on the WDC. Bottas only got 2nd through on 2019. Maybe the competition was closer the past 3 seasons, but Bottas being just 3rd on 2017, and 5th in 2018 just doesn't look that good.
You can't say that. Lets say they ran some guy that always finished behind either Bottas or Rosberg. That ups Bottas/Rosberg points. They probably finsh with the same or more points than Hamilton for the given year.

The records are going to be his but does it have any corelation to how good he is ? no.

He'll keep the records forever in my opinion cause with the changes coming. It will be hard to repeat in the coming F1 envirnoment. All those titles were purchased by Merc. They out spent everyone with the possible exception to Ferrari. So really it was a race against Ferrari (4 drivers). Well really 3 cause Rai was was a driver choosen to finish behind Vettel. All the other teams where in another series.

I kind of wish they had another podium for the 4th 5th and 6th Drivers. That's where the real excitement is and we could ignore the bore up front.
The question was whether or not Hamilton's teammates would have won the WDC had Hamilton not been at Mercedes. So it looks like (to me) Rosberg would have for 2014-2016 and Bottas for 2019. Vettel would have gotten 2017 (close to Bottas yes so it could go either way) and 2018 (not even a contest against Bottas). Even if that person ran behind Bottas, I don't think he would have gotten Vettel on 2018.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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One of the jobs of the team is to get the best driver available.

Hamilton was the best driver available in 2012 and is still the best driver avilable today. Argument done!
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Just_a_fan
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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Back to the OP question - Hamilton needs 2 wins to match Schumacher, 3 to beat him. Here's a thing - if Hamilton gets to 92 wins, not only will he beat Schumacher's total, but he'll also have as many wins as Prost and Senna combined. He already has more than Alonso and Vettel combined.

Please note: this is not a statement of "Hamilton is better than...", it's purely a factual statement regarding numbers of wins of various drivers. There are innumerable reasons why drivers have the total number of wins they do, up to and including an early death. Again, this is just a statement about the numbers, nothing more.
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Wass85
Wass85
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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When will it stop, 150 wins, 10 titles?

I think that may be a step too far for him.

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NathanOlder
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 4:53 pm
One of the jobs of the team is to get the best driver available.

Hamilton was the best driver available in 2012 and is still the best driver avilable today. Argument done!
Exactly, and as I tell some friends I know time and time again, Like most sports, when you have established your team as the best in the league, you mostly get the choice of driver/player as they all want to be in your team. So when you get that availability, you choose the best. and Mercedes have stuck with Hamilton for 8 years now and are looking for a new Multi year deal.
When someone says to me "Anyone can win in the Mercedes" I just reply with "And Mercedes can sign any driver, and they stick with Hamilton"
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NathanOlder
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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Wass85 wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 5:32 pm
When will it stop, 150 wins, 10 titles?

I think that may be a step too far for him.
150 wins will surely bring more than 10 titles. That would mean 50+ wins and only 3 titles for it. 50+ wins would have to be done in 4-6yrs at retirement age. so thats around 10 wins a season! If he gets to 150 wins, it will surely be 12 or 13 titles (which won't happen)
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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8 titles maximum, 120 wins if he's lucky but I doubt it'll be more than 110. He'll probably win 2020 unless something strange happens. 2021 will be closer than 2020 so he'll be fighting for that one. 2022 is anyone's guess. Whichever team gets the new regs right will win.
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Wass85
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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I reckon he's aiming for 10 if possible, I can't see Mercedes getting beat for a long while yet.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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It will be a tough 3 years to that point. Every pole and race win will be met with debate. The mods will really have their work cut out for them! And I think some online therapy sessions will need to be made available.
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 6:51 pm
It will be a tough 3 years to that point. Every pole and race win will be met with debate. The mods will really have their work cut out for them! And I think some online therapy sessions will need to be made available.
:D

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diffuser
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 4:53 pm
One of the jobs of the team is to get the best driver available.

Hamilton was the best driver available in 2012 and is still the best driver avilable today. Argument done!
Think you could make arguments for max, Ricardo and Alonso being as good.

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diffuser
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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e30ernest wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 4:26 pm
diffuser wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 3:14 pm
e30ernest wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 2:04 pm


Not perfect, but maybe we can look at who came in 2nd place behind him these years:

2019 - Bottas (Merc) 87 points behind Ham, 48 ahead Vers
2018 - Vettel (Ferrari) 88 points behind Ham, 69 ahead Rai
2017 - Vettel (Ferrari) 46 behind Ham, 12 ahead Bot
2016 - Ham (Merc) so I guess this counts as a Merc win. Ham 5 points behind Ros, 124 ahead of Ric
2015 - Rosberg (Merc) 59 behind Ham, 44 ahead of Vet
2014 - Rosberg (Merc) 67 behind Ham, 79 ahead of Ric


So it looks like without Ham, the WDC would have gone to Vettel for 2017 and 2018. Bottas probably wouldn't have gotten the WDC since Vettel would likely be ahead based on the points disparity (2017 would be close).

Kinda shows how good Rosberg is against Bottas IMO. 2014-2016 were basically Mercedes 1-2 on the WDC. Bottas only got 2nd through on 2019. Maybe the competition was closer the past 3 seasons, but Bottas being just 3rd on 2017, and 5th in 2018 just doesn't look that good.
You can't say that. Lets say they ran some guy that always finished behind either Bottas or Rosberg. That ups Bottas/Rosberg points. They probably finsh with the same or more points than Hamilton for the given year.

The records are going to be his but does it have any corelation to how good he is ? no.

He'll keep the records forever in my opinion cause with the changes coming. It will be hard to repeat in the coming F1 envirnoment. All those titles were purchased by Merc. They out spent everyone with the possible exception to Ferrari. So really it was a race against Ferrari (4 drivers). Well really 3 cause Rai was was a driver choosen to finish behind Vettel. All the other teams where in another series.

I kind of wish they had another podium for the 4th 5th and 6th Drivers. That's where the real excitement is and we could ignore the bore up front.
The question was whether or not Hamilton's teammates would have won the WDC had Hamilton not been at Mercedes. So it looks like (to me) Rosberg would have for 2014-2016 and Bottas for 2019. Vettel would have gotten 2017 (close to Bottas yes so it could go either way) and 2018 (not even a contest against Bottas). Even if that person ran behind Bottas, I don't think he would have gotten Vettel on 2018.
I answered the question. You take hamilton out and Bottas and Rosberg probably win instead. Simply cause they gain points from hamilton not being there. There were alot of Merc 1 2 finishes. More than half where led by Hamilton. You reverse that and the not hamilton driver wins.