Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.

Are Schumacher's WDC and Win records under threat of being eclipsed?

Will the 7 WDC record be broken?
6
3%
Will the 91 Victory record be broken?
44
26%
Neither record will be broken.
20
12%
Both records will be broken.
102
59%
 
Total votes: 172

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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tangodjango wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:26 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:37 am
Moore77 wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:50 am
It's good lie which helped people argue against his success.
Barichello gave some useful insights in to the dynamic within the team. For example, they'd have a team meeting and then the team would have a separate special meeting with Michael that Barichello never got and was never invited to. So he invited himself to one.
"So many times I grabbed my chair because the meeting was already finished and then they started another meeting with just Michael there and I said, hmm this is funny.

"I took my chair and I just would sit there, say nothing and just stay there."
To think that Michael never had any special advantages from the team is a laugh.
There are much better uses of your time than engaging with a deluded madman who is sitting on this thread 24x7 jerking off over MSC.
Yeah, I know. I really should get on with other stuff.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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Moore77 wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:46 am
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:59 pm
Wass85 wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:29 pm


All that tells me is you haven't really followed Hamilton for too long, I've followed the man closely since his debut in 2007.

If you had you would know yourself that Hamilton could be very cold to Schumacher, quite uncalled for really and I remember at the time being angry with him for doing so.

Michael has not taken any offense to it. He is fine with it.
Hamilton doesnt have to kiss his feet. He spoke the truth when he said he didn't want to win like Schumi did. He should be praised for saying that.
I take that as, taking a challenge to leave a team where he won 2 titles and working his a** off to build a strong team and bringing all that lost glory for a marquee team, instead of being a driver that just drove dominant cars. It takes a lot of stuff in a man.
Times were very different for them. A decade. No driver can do that these days.

Let's not forget schu had a support team, or believers if you like, following his greatness from benetton.

Drivers after him had sort of assembled smaller analogues to that. Alonso Stella, Massa and Smedley for example.. Two McLaren names had followed Hamilton to Mercedes.. He has gained more loyalist since then. Toto, Niki, Bono, Andy. Teams are too complex today to do what schu did back then but I could see these gentlemen following him over to another team to rebuild it if times were the same.

Hamilton is not too different actually. Just coincidental to our discussion he has actaully started a race team!

https://www.planetf1.com/news/lewis-hamilton-x44/
Alejandro Agag, founder and CEO of Extreme E, said: “We are thrilled to welcome Lewis Hamilton and his X44 team to Extreme E.

“Like us, Lewis is hugely passionate about motorsport, but also shares our belief that we can use sport to highlight climate change and equality.

“Lewis is one of the most successful drivers of all time, and we’re all excited to see how his X44 team performs on and off the race track under his incredible guidance.”

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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Moore77 wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:39 am

Bernie Ecclestone?! Come on man. :lol:
Bernie has always been a big Lewis critic. But yes it was well known that Lewis wanted out of McLaren and I do not wrong him for that one! macca was a sinking ship. Good instincts by Lewis.


Every driver wants to win. At the time Mercedes were nobodies. Hamilton knew going in that nothing was guarnteed and it would be work in progress. He was called crazy, greedy, short sighted... Then it was a thinking mans formula, Ham would struggle managing all these gizmos.. He was guzzle the most fuel. He would burn out the tyres... He wasn't cerebral enough! All sorts of unfounded BS!! Haha.

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Moore77
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:36 pm
Moore77 wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:39 am

Bernie Ecclestone?! Come on man. :lol:
Bernie has always been a big Lewis critic. But yes it was well known that Lewis wanted out of McLaren and I do not wrong him for that one! macca was a sinking ship. Good instincts by Lewis.


Every driver wants to win. At the time Mercedes were nobodies. Hamilton knew going in that nothing was guarnteed and it would be work in progress. He was called crazy, greedy, short sighted... Then it was a thinking mans formula, Ham would struggle managing all these gizmos.. He was guzzle the most fuel. He would burn out the tyres... He wasn't cerebral enough! All sorts of unfounded BS!! Haha.
Well, I can't say anything in Bernie's favor. The fact is, he was the ring master of the F1 circus and used to play a role in driver transfers. I would leave it on you to either believe it or not. People believe in what they WANT TO believe in.

Hamilton's move to Mercedes has absolute parallels in Ricciardo's move to Renault. Both wanted to get out of their team (albeit due to different reasons) but badly wants/wanted to win title(s), they both went to teams that nobody could have bet on succeeding. One driver's punt took off and other's didn't and he is leaving again. When such lotteries are taken, if it wins, then it's cerebral and if it is not, it's dumb.
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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What by the way also impressed me in Hamilton, is that he has been always one of the guys to beat, whatever the formula. He started off in the refuelling days with just doing Q laps all the time, on to slicks, full tank and tire management, reduced downforce to the different iterations or the hybrids. Both Vettel and Schumacher struggled with changes like these.

I have no doubt that Hamilton also can master the new challenges that the ‘22 cars will bring.

dans79
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:36 pm
He would burn out the tyres... He wasn't cerebral enough! All sorts of unfounded BS!! Haha.
I like this 2014 quote form Will Buxton.

https://willthef1journo.wordpress.com/2014/11/19/
Because, for me, the greatest trick that Lewis Hamilton ever pulled, was convincing the world that he wasn’t smart.

Think about it. His fuel usage has regularly been better than almost anyone in the field. Man to man versus Rosberg, I can’t recall a single race this year where in the same machinery Hamilton’s fuel usage has been higher. He has made his tyres last. He has had to fight from the back of the field time and again (think Germany, think Hungary) and yet he hasn’t overworked his tyres, he hasn’t used too much fuel. He has learned how to drive these new cars, and to extract the most from them using the least.

After the Brazilian Grand Prix, where he had made up the seven seconds he lost in his pre-pitstop slide, he commented to us on US television that he was proud of a race like the one he’d pulled in Interlagos, because it had shown, once again, that despite the prevailing conception, he could preserve his tyres, he could look after his fuel, and still be faster than his team-mate. Far from the unintelligent chancer many paint Hamilton to be, he is proving to be the intellectual match of his team-mate, and the better racer to boot.
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Just_a_fan
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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Putting this here as the thread it was going in has been closed. I think it's a valid look at Hamilton's past and comparing to others such as Schumacher. Hence it's relevant to this thread.
Wass85 wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:03 pm

Like for like Verstappen did better, a fact that the stats will tell you.
You can't say "like for like" because Max didn't do a full build up through the junior formulae as other drivers have. Based on his performance in the junior formulae that he did do, his performance wasn't that great - he never won a junior formulae title.

Max never won a single seater title. That's a simple fact.

Interesting to compare the recent champions:

Michael - won the Formula Konig series and German F3 (at the second attempt) before starting F1 career. 3 junior years.
Alonso - won Euro Open by NIssan and finished 4th in an F3 series before starting F1 career. 2 junior years.
Kimi - won Formula Renault UK winter series (won all four races), won Formula Renault UK (7 wins in 10 races). 2 junior years.
Button - won British Formula Ford, came 3rd in F3 before F1 career. 2 junior years.
Vettel - won Formula BMW at second attempt, 2nd in F3. 4 junior years.
Rosberg - won Formula BMW at first attempt, won GP2 on only attempt. 5 junior years (4 + F1 test driver year).
Hamilton - won Formula Renault UK at second attempt, won F3 at second attempt, won GP2 on only attempt. 6 junior years.

Summary of junior series wins:
Hamilton 3
Michael 2
Kimi 2
Rosberg 2
Alonso 1
Button 1
Vettel 1

And I remember people moaning that Hamilton hadn't earned the right to be in a top car when he joined F1. He'd proved his calibre by doing several years and winning at each level before progressing.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

Wass85
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:31 pm
Putting this here as the thread it was going in has been closed. I think it's a valid look at Hamilton's past and comparing to others such as Schumacher. Hence it's relevant to this thread.
Wass85 wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:03 pm

Like for like Verstappen did better, a fact that the stats will tell you.
You can't say "like for like" because Max didn't do a full build up through the junior formulae as other drivers have. Based on his performance in the junior formulae that he did do, his performance wasn't that great - he never won a junior formulae title.

Max never won a single seater title. That's a simple fact.

Interesting to compare the recent champions:

Michael - won the Formula Konig series and German F3 (at the second attempt) before starting F1 career. 3 junior years.
Alonso - won Euro Open by NIssan and finished 4th in an F3 series before starting F1 career. 2 junior years.
Kimi - won Formula Renault UK winter series (won all four races), won Formula Renault UK (7 wins in 10 races). 2 junior years.
Button - won British Formula Ford, came 3rd in F3 before F1 career. 2 junior years.
Vettel - won Formula BMW at second attempt, 2nd in F3. 4 junior years.
Rosberg - won Formula BMW at first attempt, won GP2 on only attempt. 5 junior years (4 + F1 test driver year).
Hamilton - won Formula Renault UK at second attempt, won F3 at second attempt, won GP2 on only attempt. 6 junior years.

Summary of junior series wins:
Hamilton 3
Michael 2
Kimi 2
Rosberg 2
Alonso 1
Button 1
Vettel 1

And I remember people moaning that Hamilton hadn't earned the right to be in a top car when he joined F1. He'd proved his calibre by doing several years and winning at each level before progressing.
Which makes his 3rd position in his debut F3 season even more impressive, he had much less single seater experience than Hamilton did yet still finished higher.

This was also achieved whilst having 8 dnf's to Ocon's 3.

Just_a_fan
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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Wass85 wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:43 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:31 pm
Putting this here as the thread it was going in has been closed. I think it's a valid look at Hamilton's past and comparing to others such as Schumacher. Hence it's relevant to this thread.
Wass85 wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:03 pm

Like for like Verstappen did better, a fact that the stats will tell you.
You can't say "like for like" because Max didn't do a full build up through the junior formulae as other drivers have. Based on his performance in the junior formulae that he did do, his performance wasn't that great - he never won a junior formulae title.

Max never won a single seater title. That's a simple fact.

Interesting to compare the recent champions:

Michael - won the Formula Konig series and German F3 (at the second attempt) before starting F1 career. 3 junior years.
Alonso - won Euro Open by NIssan and finished 4th in an F3 series before starting F1 career. 2 junior years.
Kimi - won Formula Renault UK winter series (won all four races), won Formula Renault UK (7 wins in 10 races). 2 junior years.
Button - won British Formula Ford, came 3rd in F3 before F1 career. 2 junior years.
Vettel - won Formula BMW at second attempt, 2nd in F3. 4 junior years.
Rosberg - won Formula BMW at first attempt, won GP2 on only attempt. 5 junior years (4 + F1 test driver year).
Hamilton - won Formula Renault UK at second attempt, won F3 at second attempt, won GP2 on only attempt. 6 junior years.

Summary of junior series wins:
Hamilton 3
Michael 2
Kimi 2
Rosberg 2
Alonso 1
Button 1
Vettel 1

And I remember people moaning that Hamilton hadn't earned the right to be in a top car when he joined F1. He'd proved his calibre by doing several years and winning at each level before progressing.
Which makes his 3rd position in his debut F3 season even more impressive, he had much less single seater experience than Hamilton did yet still finished higher.

This was also achieved whilst having 8 dnf's to Ocon's 3.
Believe what you will.

I'm done trying to discuss facts with you. I've remembered your MO. Goodbye.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

Wass85
Wass85
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:22 pm
Wass85 wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:43 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:31 pm
Putting this here as the thread it was going in has been closed. I think it's a valid look at Hamilton's past and comparing to others such as Schumacher. Hence it's relevant to this thread.


You can't say "like for like" because Max didn't do a full build up through the junior formulae as other drivers have. Based on his performance in the junior formulae that he did do, his performance wasn't that great - he never won a junior formulae title.

Max never won a single seater title. That's a simple fact.

Interesting to compare the recent champions:

Michael - won the Formula Konig series and German F3 (at the second attempt) before starting F1 career. 3 junior years.
Alonso - won Euro Open by NIssan and finished 4th in an F3 series before starting F1 career. 2 junior years.
Kimi - won Formula Renault UK winter series (won all four races), won Formula Renault UK (7 wins in 10 races). 2 junior years.
Button - won British Formula Ford, came 3rd in F3 before F1 career. 2 junior years.
Vettel - won Formula BMW at second attempt, 2nd in F3. 4 junior years.
Rosberg - won Formula BMW at first attempt, won GP2 on only attempt. 5 junior years (4 + F1 test driver year).
Hamilton - won Formula Renault UK at second attempt, won F3 at second attempt, won GP2 on only attempt. 6 junior years.

Summary of junior series wins:
Hamilton 3
Michael 2
Kimi 2
Rosberg 2
Alonso 1
Button 1
Vettel 1

And I remember people moaning that Hamilton hadn't earned the right to be in a top car when he joined F1. He'd proved his calibre by doing several years and winning at each level before progressing.
Which makes his 3rd position in his debut F3 season even more impressive, he had much less single seater experience than Hamilton did yet still finished higher.

This was also achieved whilst having 8 dnf's to Ocon's 3.
Believe what you will.

I'm done trying to discuss facts with you. I've remembered your MO. Goodbye.
I've layed out all the facts so don't know what you're getting at?

Max only had one season in F3 and finished 3rd, had Hamilton done the same the best result would have been 5th in the championship.

It is what it is and as we've seen before, success in the feeder categories does not guarantee success in F1.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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Max is off topic. What does Max have to do with Schumacher's records? :?:

The closest drivers to breaking them are Hamilton and Vettel. Even discussing Vettel in here is a huge stretch. Somehow Hamilton would have to stop winning races for four years while Vettel dominates everything. Very unlikley. So we are currently discussing Schumacher and Hamilton. Max is not even on the same page yet. How impudent.

Just_a_fan
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:47 pm
Max is off topic. What does Max have to do with Schumacher's records? :?:
You're correct. It's just that some people are intent on proving Hamilton's record is somehow less than it is. "Hater's gonna hate" as they say.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

Wass85
Wass85
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:03 pm
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:47 pm
Max is off topic. What does Max have to do with Schumacher's records? :?:
You're correct. It's just that some people are intent on proving Hamilton's record is somehow less than it is. "Hater's gonna hate" as they say.
How can it be less than it is?

He's dropped on and got in a dominant car just like Schumacher did, you would expect any top driver to do the same given the opportunity.

dans79
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Location: USA

Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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Wass85 wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:34 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:22 pm
Wass85 wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:43 pm

Which makes his 3rd position in his debut F3 season even more impressive, he had much less single seater experience than Hamilton did yet still finished higher.

This was also achieved whilst having 8 dnf's to Ocon's 3.
Believe what you will.

I'm done trying to discuss facts with you. I've remembered your MO. Goodbye.
I've layed out all the facts so don't know what you're getting at?
You can drop the masquerade, everyone knows what going on!
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NathanOlder
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Location: Kent

Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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Wass85 wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:43 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:31 pm
Putting this here as the thread it was going in has been closed. I think it's a valid look at Hamilton's past and comparing to others such as Schumacher. Hence it's relevant to this thread.
Wass85 wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:03 pm

Like for like Verstappen did better, a fact that the stats will tell you.
You can't say "like for like" because Max didn't do a full build up through the junior formulae as other drivers have. Based on his performance in the junior formulae that he did do, his performance wasn't that great - he never won a junior formulae title.

Max never won a single seater title. That's a simple fact.

Interesting to compare the recent champions:

Michael - won the Formula Konig series and German F3 (at the second attempt) before starting F1 career. 3 junior years.
Alonso - won Euro Open by NIssan and finished 4th in an F3 series before starting F1 career. 2 junior years.
Kimi - won Formula Renault UK winter series (won all four races), won Formula Renault UK (7 wins in 10 races). 2 junior years.
Button - won British Formula Ford, came 3rd in F3 before F1 career. 2 junior years.
Vettel - won Formula BMW at second attempt, 2nd in F3. 4 junior years.
Rosberg - won Formula BMW at first attempt, won GP2 on only attempt. 5 junior years (4 + F1 test driver year).
Hamilton - won Formula Renault UK at second attempt, won F3 at second attempt, won GP2 on only attempt. 6 junior years.

Summary of junior series wins:
Hamilton 3
Michael 2
Kimi 2
Rosberg 2
Alonso 1
Button 1
Vettel 1

And I remember people moaning that Hamilton hadn't earned the right to be in a top car when he joined F1. He'd proved his calibre by doing several years and winning at each level before progressing.
Which makes his 3rd position in his debut F3 season even more impressive, he had much less single seater experience than Hamilton did yet still finished higher.

This was also achieved whilst having 8 dnf's to Ocon's 3.
You do realise 5 of those 8 were collisions and spins where Max was at fault. So please dont try and paint it in such a way where you want people to believe Max broke down 8 times and got very unlucky.
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