Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
Wass85
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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

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NathanOlder wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:41 pm
Jolle wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:14 pm
ringo wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:53 pm
Leclerc is destroying vettel 2 years in a row now.. So.. it looks like people are forgetting some very obvious things.
Verstappen is yet to face a world champion teammate like Leclerc, or even one on Vettel's level.
Leclerc is very much outperforming Vettel on every level apart from race "foresight" which will come with experience.
I also see him as equal or greater than Max. Leclerc has better leadership qualities than Max and a cooler head.
Max has had a massive head start in terms of experience and being in the red bull car that makes you look like a hero.
At best both are same level, with Leclerc more promising in terms of potential. We have seen Max's full potential in terms of his craft, speed, intelligence, temperament, leadership, consistency etc.
Mhoa... from at least the second half of ‘18 Vettels fire stoped burning that bright, even Kimi had his number. We’ve seen the same thing at RedBull, when he’s not in flow, he’s not fast. I hope Vettel will be in flow next year, else even Stroll is going to end up in front of him.

From the first moment in the Ferrari I was impressed by Leclerc, he is very aggressive in securing his position, especially on team radio.

He and Verstappen are in cars both from ‘14 by the way, although Verstappen is longer in F1, their experience is roughly the same (Leclerc is only three weeks younger).

Let’s see how next year will go.
From the moment max walked through the door at RedBull in 2016, Ricciardo outscored him to the end of the season. Ricciardo outscored him in 2017. Ricciardo had outscored him up to the point where Danny said he's leaving for Renault. Then Ricciardo had unbelievably bad reliability. Also every year as team mates, Ricciardo had worse reliability. more car breakdowns. Max didn't beat Ricciardo, Ricciardo clearly beat Max.

Max better than Ricciardo, is exactly the same as saying Rosberg was better than Hamilton. Ham won more than he lost as team mates, like Danny did to Max.

I now feel Max is ahead of Danny as Danny hasn't had the chance to show where he's at now, but theres no real proof of either being better to be honest.
You are clearly overlooking the context though.

Max came in to the team and was immediately a match for Ricciardo, he was also the faster driver in 2017.

By 2018 Ricciardo was way off the performance level of Verstappen but was a solid pair of hands who made very little mistakes on a Sunday.

Max was clearly faster than Ricciardo during their time together.

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JordanMugen
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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

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Jolle wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:10 pm
Ricciardo is still an enigma however. He is fast, funny, great guy... but I just don't see him leading a team to a WC.
Why not!? :wtf: :?:

Jolle
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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

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JordanMugen wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:50 am
Jolle wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:10 pm
Ricciardo is still an enigma however. He is fast, funny, great guy... but I just don't see him leading a team to a WC.
Why not!? :wtf: :?:
I have the feeling that, instead of making his environment really his, and securing his top spot by either results or pressure, he takes the relative easy way out and moves teams. If he dug in at Renault and committed to their route, I think it would be another thing. Plus, McLaren is a great team, but also not a works team. An outsider, not a solid contender, bit like Ricciardo himself.

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Phil
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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

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I feel comparing Riccardo/Verstappen is not unlike Button/Hamilton. Across a season, one might have scored more points than the other, but there is little doubt which driver was faster.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
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DChemTech
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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

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Phil wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:52 am
I feel comparing Riccardo/Verstappen is not unlike Button/Hamilton. Across a season, one might have scored more points than the other, but there is little doubt which driver was faster.
Agreed. In addition, 2017-2018 were both hampered by Max being over-eager and hot-headed. These aspects took away from performance in those years, but not from potential. Even though Ric performed better, RB judged Max had more potential. And I can see why.

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Phil
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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

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Another example was Monaco. Max was the guy to beat, yet he threw it away in FP3 (or was it first part of qualifying with a crash) and Riccardo went on to secure pole and win the race... Had that not happened, I can't see Riccardo having beat Max. Fair play, Max made that mistake and paid for it, but that doesn't make Riccardo the faster driver.

Riccardo striked me a bit like Button in 2010-2012. He knew quickly he wasn't as quick as Lewis - he then simply concentrated on making the best of the situation he was in and made those count. And as a result, he kept putting in strong results and profited off Lewis pushing too hard and occasionally making mistakes, crashing etc.

Having that said, one has to appreciate that Riccardo is the only driver so far who has put Max under substantial pressure and he wasn't that far off. In fact, he was quite close. That's quite an achievement in my book, considering how high people hold Max.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
#Team44 supporter

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MtthsMlw
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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

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:wink:

Manoah2u
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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

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and this belongs in the silly season thread how?
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.

DChemTech
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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

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Manoah2u wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:26 am
and this belongs in the silly season thread how?
it's silly, to be sure :D

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MtthsMlw
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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

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Manoah2u wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:26 am
and this belongs in the silly season thread how?
Hinting that Hamilton will renew his contract soon

selvam_e2002
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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

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Hey,

The driver talent come into the picture when they drove worst car not the good car. So, Max, Lecrec have long way to go. Please wait and see. Please don't come to conclusion with single team(max) or with team support(lecrec)

The same goes to vettel as well, every one said he is next Mschemacher however he is not. Once he moved from RB comfort zone he is not shining much.

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JordanMugen
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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

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selvam_e2002 wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:35 am
The same goes to vettel as well, every one said he is next Mschemacher however he is not. Once he moved from RB comfort zone he is not shining much.
Comfort zone? Vettel already seemed subpar at Red Bull when he lost by 0 wins to 3 wins of Ricciardo...

Wass85
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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

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JordanMugen wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:55 am
selvam_e2002 wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:35 am
The same goes to vettel as well, every one said he is next Mschemacher however he is not. Once he moved from RB comfort zone he is not shining much.
Comfort zone? Vettel already seemed subpar at Red Bull when he lost by 0 wins to 3 wins of Ricciardo...
Should we just ignore his pre Red Bull career as well? It was obvious from the start that Vettel was a big talent.

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NathanOlder
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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

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Wass85 wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:59 am
JordanMugen wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:55 am
selvam_e2002 wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:35 am
The same goes to vettel as well, every one said he is next Mschemacher however he is not. Once he moved from RB comfort zone he is not shining much.
Comfort zone? Vettel already seemed subpar at Red Bull when he lost by 0 wins to 3 wins of Ricciardo...
Should we just ignore his pre Red Bull career as well? It was obvious from the start that Vettel was a big talent.
True, winning the BMW championship the way he did was very impressive. Not so much when he got to F3, but still was looking a very good prospect.
GoLandoGo
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New found love for GT racing with Assetto Corsa Competizione on PS4.

Wass85
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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

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NathanOlder wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:29 pm
Wass85 wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:59 am
JordanMugen wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:55 am


Comfort zone? Vettel already seemed subpar at Red Bull when he lost by 0 wins to 3 wins of Ricciardo...
Should we just ignore his pre Red Bull career as well? It was obvious from the start that Vettel was a big talent.
True, winning the BMW championship the way he did was very impressive. Not so much when he got to F3, but still was looking a very good prospect.
Plus his stint with Torro Rosso, I don't know what happened to him in 2014 but I have a feeling he'd already decided to go to Ferrari after winning the title in 2013.