Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

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raymondu999
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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 11:28 pm
I don't buy the excuse that he cant drive a loose car anymore. I have begun to believe that Vettel simply gets nervous when he has a fast teamate. He is essentially the racing version of the sprinter Asafa Powell.
“Little Monegasque Kid” - what’s that supposed to mean? Your post implies being a skinny little monegasque kid means you cannot be a special talent. Which in other threads you have called Leclerc.

I think Vettel’s style makes the rear looser. I think hes a hard trail braker. If you watched his laps on hard braking circuits, you can see the nose point so much better in those corners with heavy braking entries.

Case in point:


As an aside - you can also see what Jolle was saying in the T5/6 chicane - before hitting the T5 apex he’s already turning to focus on T6. Also in the tight uphill chicane (is it T8/9?) while he is increasing left lock for the kink in the corner his head is already looking for the right hand apex.

Anyways back to my point. If you see the main issues between Vettel and Leclerc this year for example it’s always been on the entry (more or less) when Vettel has these snaps. I think Lec brakes smoother and less of his corner is trail-transitioning into full corner grip, which keeps the snap locked up.

Vettel’s RB years I think they loosened the rear suspension (softer ARB, etc?) and allowed Vettel’s heavy trail braking to break into an induced roll-oversteer situation, and then when this helped the car change direction better, Vettel slammed the throttle and the added downforce from the blown floor squashed out whatever was left of a slide.
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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

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raymondu999 wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 6:06 am
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 11:28 pm
I don't buy the excuse that he cant drive a loose car anymore. I have begun to believe that Vettel simply gets nervous when he has a fast teamate. He is essentially the racing version of the sprinter Asafa Powell.
“Little Monegasque Kid” - what’s that supposed to mean? Your post implies being a skinny little monegasque kid means you cannot be a special talent. Which in other threads you have called Leclerc.

I think Vettel’s style makes the rear looser. I think hes a hard trail braker. If you watched his laps on hard braking circuits, you can see the nose point so much better in those corners with heavy braking entries.

Case in point:
https://youtu.be/VN76TfXYADI

As an aside - you can also see what Jolle was saying in the T5/6 chicane - before hitting the T5 apex he’s already turning to focus on T6. Also in the tight uphill chicane (is it T8/9?) while he is increasing left lock for the kink in the corner his head is already looking for the right hand apex.

Anyways back to my point. If you see the main issues between Vettel and Leclerc this year for example it’s always been on the entry (more or less) when Vettel has these snaps. I think Lec brakes smoother and less of his corner is trail-transitioning into full corner grip, which keeps the snap locked up.

Vettel’s RB years I think they loosened the rear suspension (softer ARB, etc?) and allowed Vettel’s heavy trail braking to break into an induced roll-oversteer situation, and then when this helped the car change direction better, Vettel slammed the throttle and the added downforce from the blown floor squashed out whatever was left of a slide.
It is Sarcasm that's why. at the time some people didn't his sauber performances as any evidence he could trouble a champion.

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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

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I remember watching Lec at Austin 2018...practice and rain. His talents had been quite hyped by that point in the season. However, on the wet track, hapless. I went back and looked at his Hockenheim results (famous wet incident of Vet)...Lec finished 15th (not bad for the Sauber). Conversely, his Sauber-shod teammate, Ericsson was 9th.

Yes, that is one race, and I do not recall the circumstances that led to the final classifications, and I have no knowledge of Lec's jr drives in the rain. Still, based upon other wet appearances, I would go "all in" on bets against Lec in such conditions. I have seen several good to great drives from him in dry...have not witnessed any rain skills.

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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

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Scorpaguy wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 2:17 pm
I remember watching Lec at Austin 2018...practice and rain. His talents had been quite hyped by that point in the season. However, on the wet track, hapless. I went back and looked at his Hockenheim results (famous wet incident of Vet)...Lec finished 15th (not bad for the Sauber). Conversely, his Sauber-shod teammate, Ericsson was 9th.

Yes, that is one race, and I do not recall the circumstances that led to the final classifications, and I have no knowledge of Lec's jr drives in the rain. Still, based upon other wet appearances, I would go "all in" on bets against Lec in such conditions. I have seen several good to great drives from him in dry...have not witnessed any rain skills.
A simple wet race or even a season is not a thing where you can base someone’s abilities to race in the rain on. Some cars for instance just don’t work in the rain, they are either to twitchy, nervous or stall the floor over puddles. RedBull’s car in 2017 had some of these problems for instance. Also, it’s something different to drive fast in the rain or to race. Racing in the rain comes with higher risk and will lead to more crashes.
For someone like leclerc it’s to early to see if he’s good in the rain, we’ll see.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

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F1 has had a few dry weather greats. I tend to categorize them as just having a different focus. I don't necessarily say they are not as good as the all rounders. We also have some wet weather guys that only come to life in the rain.

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Big Tea
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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 4:09 pm
F1 has had a few dry weather greats. I tend to categorize them as just having a different focus. I don't necessarily say they are not as good as the all rounders. We also have some wet weather guys that only come to life in the rain.
Wet drivers seem to have a better 'feel' in general. Even in the dry they often get the best out o tyres past their prime.
A seat of the pants sort of feel that is quicker reacting than the 'average' top driver.
I am very much in favour of filtered water. Preferably passed through a brewery

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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

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never jump over crests, when you don't know what lays behind them.
Finishing races is important, but racing is more important.

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raymondu999
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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 4:09 pm
F1 has had a few dry weather greats. I tend to categorize them as just having a different focus. I don't necessarily say they are not as good as the all rounders. We also have some wet weather guys that only come to life in the rain.
Agree. Button imo is one of the rain guys.
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NathanOlder
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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

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raymondu999 wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 3:59 pm
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 4:09 pm
F1 has had a few dry weather greats. I tend to categorize them as just having a different focus. I don't necessarily say they are not as good as the all rounders. We also have some wet weather guys that only come to life in the rain.
Agree. Button imo is one of the rain guys.
I'm pretty sure we had a long chat somewhere about Buttons wet weather running and he was nowhere near as good as his reputation perceives.
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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

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Yeah he is the best in changing conditions.. Good at predicting when rain is going to fall and what tyre to be on.

I don't recall him as a top driver in monsoon conditions though.

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raymondu999
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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

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NathanOlder wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 5:09 pm
raymondu999 wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 3:59 pm
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 4:09 pm
F1 has had a few dry weather greats. I tend to categorize them as just having a different focus. I don't necessarily say they are not as good as the all rounders. We also have some wet weather guys that only come to life in the rain.
Agree. Button imo is one of the rain guys.
I'm pretty sure we had a long chat somewhere about Buttons wet weather running and he was nowhere near as good as his reputation perceives.
No no I mean. I’m not saying Button was the best in the wet - although he is as Zealot says very good at judging tyre changes and is great at those transition phases between tyres - as in Button always markedly performed better when it was wet. In the dry he was I think good but not much more.

Meaning, the betting odds of Button winning a wet race are probably much more handsome than the betting odds for a dry win
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raymondu999
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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

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Hulkenberg imo is one of those too. While the results other than his pole don’t affirm this, you cannot doubt his wet talent - as much as his nerves (or whatever it is) let him down.

Wasn’t Rosberg Jr. also (to my memory) a dry specialist? He was very average in the rain IIRC
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NathanOlder
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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

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raymondu999 wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 4:29 am
NathanOlder wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 5:09 pm
raymondu999 wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 3:59 pm


Agree. Button imo is one of the rain guys.
I'm pretty sure we had a long chat somewhere about Buttons wet weather running and he was nowhere near as good as his reputation perceives.
No no I mean. I’m not saying Button was the best in the wet - although he is as Zealot says very good at judging tyre changes and is great at those transition phases between tyres - as in Button always markedly performed better when it was wet. In the dry he was I think good but not much more.

Meaning, the betting odds of Button winning a wet race are probably much more handsome than the betting odds for a dry win
Ah right, gotcha. Yeah I agree with that now :D
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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

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The only thing that bothers me about silly season is Hamiltons negotiations dragging out so much lol we all know hes going to stay at Merc. But why must his style be so dramatic all the time. I understand its part of his PR which is how he gets the massive sponsorship deals that he does. I also realize that there is a young generation of hypsters with cash and perhaps thats a demographic that Mercedes is tryin to get by having Hamilton be "woke" and be all socially bias. I fully understand that while Hamilton actually does belive what he fights for Mercedes backs him because they are riding the same financial benefit that Nike sees in supporting BLM and other corporate companies as well but.... Dam lol just announce it!!!!!!


Because if not ill start to contemplate drunken theories :oops: :oops: :oops:
Racer X's
Drunken Theory: Toto is going to release Hamilton to Aston Martin help Aston Martin win the 2021 Championship in an epic Vettel versus Hamilton fight Lawrence will release his Jr. to Mercedes and Bottas and Lance despite having "the better car" will not catch Vettel/Hamilton and this will create a fight at Aston Martin that will give a lot of profits to Toto and Lawrence. The Championship is either way an Aston Martin Victory or a Mercedes victory either way Lawrence/Toto win.....

Edit: Vettel still spins 2 or 3 times only to recover and still end up on the podium. . .
LEWIS HAMILTON 44/92

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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

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Racer X wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 3:43 pm
The only thing that bothers me about silly season is Hamiltons negotiations dragging out so much lol we all know hes going to stay at Merc. But why must his style be so dramatic all the time. I understand its part of his PR which is how he gets the massive sponsorship deals that he does. I also realize that there is a young generation of hypsters with cash and perhaps thats a demographic that Mercedes is tryin to get by having Hamilton be "woke" and be all socially bias. I fully understand that while Hamilton actually does belive what he fights for Mercedes backs him because they are riding the same financial benefit that Nike sees in supporting BLM and other corporate companies as well but.... Dam lol just announce it!!!!!!
You've got it all wrong. Toto says "we'll give you loads of money", Lewis "I want loads and loads of money", Toto "Ok we can do that", "And I want only blue M&Ms in the motorhome" "Nein, you ask too much!" :lol: :lol:
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"