Racer X wrote: ↑
Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:36 am
LHamilton wrote: ↑
Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:11 am
ringo wrote: ↑
Sun Oct 25, 2020 5:56 pm
Yes Perez is race ready and sharp. Hulk just has a few races this year and no evidence of fighting for wins. Perez has in fact fought for wins and podiums, plus he brings money
One of the laziest comments i've seen. Like, what is this? In terms of fighting for wins and podiums, are you suggesting this season or overall? Because overall, Hulkenberg has 'in fact' done both. Are you suggesting that it's the former, then I have to question your common sense.
And in regards to 'Perez is race ready and sharp'; Well yes, he has raced this season. Hulkenberg has experience and done two races this season, so i wouldn't really say that is in Perez favour. At least not to the degree you want to make it out to be. It's more about getting familiar with steering wheels and everything around the actual racing part. And that is something Perez has to do, to the same degree Hulkenberg has, regardless of whomever gets the RB drive. Because both will be new to the surroudings.
I wish people would do some proper research when they compare drivers. Just so lazy to base a driver upon points and podiums alone.
And if RB is as tricky as people make it out to be, then perhaps people should take more into consideration when looking at drivers. Driving-styles etc. But I guess some critical thinking is to much to ask. It's easier to read some numbers and have it at that.
Formula 1 is a result driven industry as are mosr sports. Sergio had results it's funny how you want people to elaborate on something but you also want them to disregard facts like points, & podiums.
The fact is Hulk has driven equal machinery to his teammates and hasn't been quicker. Hes also failed to get on the podium.
If we ignore podiums and results hes still slower still behind Daniel and Perez but if we consider podiums and results then suddenly he's not looking too good things they look worse. The fact is in the Championship they both beat him also he's consistently just mediocre.
The fact is Sergio can make a tire compound last long and run lap times equal to Hamilton consistently he's able to do this during an entire race. His race craft to be able to overtake people without relying on the DRS as well as without burning out his breaks or flat spotting his tires is what makes him a great driver.
People say well Hulkenberg was consistent.
Perez has gained consistency as well he already had raw speed along with a strong sensibility for balancing his tires and car. Otmar says it's like he's a driver that has traction control built-in. In that same interview Otmar mentioned that Perez used to work teaching Hulkenberg how to he faster on Sundays.
Which to me it means Hulk is good for a solid lap or two but hes overall speed is slower then it could be. If Perez had to help him on being faster on Sundays. He said that on F1 Nation by the way.
Hulk was beaten on Sundays by both Perez and Ricciardo. Look at Perez you can put him in the back of the grid and he will just cruise back up to the front. Hulk maybe stays where he qualifies. Often he loses ground compared to where he qualifies. Sure he has beaten Perez in Qualifying but he always finished behind him so what good did that ever do him.
Firstly, have a look at your sentences and how you write. Gets a bit tedious reading it.
Secondly, stop lying. I have never said you should disregard results such as podium or points. I wanted to point out that context matters. In everything. You can't simply put one type of numbers out at be like 'yeah, more of those so clearly he is better'. If that were the case Button would be a better driver than Hamilton since during their McLaren era, Button scored more points and more podiums than Hamilton. Can you see the fallibility of such conclusions?
Thirdly, stop cherry picking. You are obviously a Perez fan, but you can't cherry pick moments to suit your needs. In terms of teammates (another thing which you lied about), he has outscored more than he has lost. Di Resta, Gutierrez, Palmer, Perez (1) & Sainz. Lost against Perez (2) & Ricciardo. And in terms of out-qualify his opponents, he has done that to everyone bar Barrichello and Ricciardo.
"If we ignore podiums and results, he is still slower than Ricciardo/Perez" (Paraphrase) - On what metrics are we talking here in terms of 'results'? You just throwing out a comment without any substance. Let's see what we find if we remove Perez's podiums (your statement).
2014 Bahrain: 3rd for Perez. That year Hulkenberg outscored Perez 96-59. Without Perez's podium, Hulkenberg wins with; 96-44.
2015 Russia: 3rd for Perez. That year Perez outscored Hulkenberg 78-58. Without Perez's podium, Perez wins with; 63-58.
2016 Monaco & Azerbadijan: 3rd both times. That year Perez outscored Hulkenberg 101-72. Without Perez's podiums, Hulkenberg wins with 72-71.
So, another lie for you. We are up to three now.
When you point to Sergio being able to run the same laptimes as Hamilton, how come he is not with Hamilton at the end of the race? I bet you put that information in there just because he did so last GP in Nurburguring when it was told over the radio. What I do agree on is Perez capacity to be very kind on his tyres.
In regards to not over-do your breaks and lock-ups; Seems like a throw-away comments as well. Haven't seen anyone complain about Hulkenbergs, or any current driver, incapacity to do so.
Otmars comments about Perez and Hulkenberg is something that Hulkenberg himself has confirmed to some sense. When I say confirmed, Hulkenberg told that Perez was better at conserving his tires, and I wouldn't be suprised if that is something that Hulkenberg tried to learn for Perez.
Did Perez beat Hulkenberg on Sundays? Sure, if we look at results and results only. But remember context matters. Hulkenberg has had far more DNFs than Perez.
2016: Hulkenberg had 5 DNFs. Perez 1 DNF.
2015: Hulkenberg had 5 DNFs and 1 DNS. Perez 1 DNF.
2014: Hulkenberg had 2 DNFs. Perez had 4 DNFs and 1 DNS.
If we look at how it went when both finished the race; who won then;
2014: 7-7. Hulkenberg had seven races where he finished above Perez. Perez had the equal amount.
2015: 7-6. Hulkenberg had seven races where he finished above Perez. Perez had six races.
2016: 8-8. Hulkenberg had eight races where he finished above Perez. Perez had the equal amount.
If you want the above metric in points:
2016: 85-72 in favour of Perez (16 points removed from Perez) The one DNF Perez had, Hulk DNFd in that race.
2015: 58-37 in favour of Hulkenberg (41 points removed from Perez) The one DNF Perez had, Hulk DNFd in that race.
2014: 66-59 in favour of Hulkenberg (30 points removed from Hulkenberg) Two DNFs that Hulk had, Perez DNFd in the same races.
Well, in regards to this metric, Hulkenberg wins. However, you shouldn't base your judgement on one metric and one metric alone, since there are flaws with it. Just as basing your opinions one another sole metric is unjustifiable.
To me, Hulkenberg is the slightly faster driver, specially on Saturdays. With Sundays being very close. What I would say, which metrics above support, is that Hulkenberg and Perez are very close. Perez has a capacity to be very consistent, getting those points on the board. Hulkenberg has the tendency to sometimes do mistakes, which sees him retire more often and thus lose points.
There is a case to make for Perez being the 'better' driver due to him not making mistakes, having the incredible nack of keeping his tyres in good condition etc. I wouldn't be suprised if Perez were the one to have the best tyre management over the whole field. But to call Hulkenberg down right average is quite the stretch, when you look at how close they are. You just blindly looking at podiums and forget about context. It would've been different if Hulkenberg were never near a podium, nor race wins. However, he's been close multiple times, which kinda suggests that he has the speed.
Oh well, sorry for making this post so long and it might come across aggressive. My intention is not that, but to convey that context should be considered when trying to compare drivers.