Leclerc's win in Monza signals the arrival of F1 reality TV

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santos
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Re: Leclerc's win in Monza signals the arrival of F1 reality TV

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I'm ok with the use of the black and white flag… Giving a 5 second penalty for that would be silly. If Hamilton had a broken wing, a damaged suspension, or a puncture.. than ok, he would deserve a penalty. Remember, this time it was for a red car, in future maybe it is for a silver one.

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AMG.Tzan
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Re: Leclerc's win in Monza signals the arrival of F1 reality TV

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wesley123 wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:02 pm
AMG.Tzan wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:46 am
The new rule with the black n white flag is the way to go i believe! Giving a penalty to a driver straightaway is not nice if it's not something extreme at least!
I would consider pushing someone off the track in a braking zone they enter at 300+km/h rather extreme that can go very, very wrong.
Just like Vettel in Canada...it was a mistake and of course Vettel would defend his position just like he did!
It's still breaking the rules, and breaking it with intent like you describe should be penalized.

And again i am a Hamilton fan but these kind of penalties that take away someone's win are just too harsh!
1. What does it matter here who you are a fan of? Does your opinion become less valued because you are a Perez fan?

2. The only harsh thing is the inconsistency in which the rules are enforced. And somehow suggesting the rules don't count for the leader of the race makes no sense.

Anyway, i have to admit that Leclerc winning in Monza, smashing Vettel inside Ferrari's home, was what i was hoping for!! =D>

What has that got to do with this?
What i mean by saying "i am a Hamilton fan" is that i am trying to be as objective as i can! Don't know where you got the impression that as a Hamilton fan my opinion is more valued...

Rules apply to everyone of course but it's different losing a win (and maybe a championship at the end) to losing a 15th place and it's difficult to stay consistent since every single accident has its own parameters!

Did Hamilton lose anything by being squeezed from Leclerc?? No...why should Leclerc get a penalty that at the end of the day will lose him a historic win? It took the Ferrari F1 community months to get over Vettel's Canada penalty :lol:

Had they touched of course he would have got a penalty there...look at Vettel and Stroll...different penalties because one touched another car and the other didn't, yet the end result was the same! Except for that the experience of the driver involved in the accident is a parameter and i think that's why Vettel got the harsher penalty! You don't expect a 4-time WDC do something silly like this!

And if you know what humor is, then maybe you can understand what my last quote had to do with this...
"The only rule is there are no rules" - Aristotle Onassis

dans79
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Re: Leclerc's win in Monza signals the arrival of F1 reality TV

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santos wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:19 pm
Remember, this time it was for a red car, in future maybe it is for a silver one.
What team it is, is irrelevant.
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dans79
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Re: Leclerc's win in Monza signals the arrival of F1 reality TV

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AMG.Tzan wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:13 pm
Rules apply to everyone of course but it's different losing a win (and maybe a championship at the end) to losing a 15th place and it's difficult to stay consistent since every single accident has its own parameters!
It does not matter if you are in 1st or 19th, if you squeeze someone off, its against the rules. You current position is irreverent.
AMG.Tzan wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:13 pm
Did Hamilton lose anything by being squeezed from Leclerc?? No...why should Leclerc get a penalty that at the end of the day will lose him a historic win?
Lewis lost the chance to win as well. Charles squeezed Lewis off, and took away his chance to pass and take the lead.
Charles is not entitled to the win because he was leading at the time, he must abide by the rules just like everyone else.
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JordanMugen
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Re: Leclerc's win in Monza signals the arrival of F1 reality TV

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dans79 wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:42 pm
Charles is not entitled to the win because he was leading at the time, he must abide by the rules just like everyone else.
Image

Yet there Charles is, having won the race. So he clearly did not do anything wrong. :)

dans79
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Re: Leclerc's win in Monza signals the arrival of F1 reality TV

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JordanMugen wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:29 pm
dans79 wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:42 pm
Charles is not entitled to the win because he was leading at the time, he must abide by the rules just like everyone else.
https://o.aolcdn.com/images/dims3/GLOB/ ... 1762a92f1b

Yet there Charles is, having won the race. So he clearly did not do anything wrong. :)
Only because the stewards decided to give him a free pass twice!
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strad
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Re: Leclerc's win in Monza signals the arrival of F1 reality TV

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we get it. Your hero got squeezed a bit and didn't win.
But not because of that incident. suck it up and move on.
There will be races where horsepower isn't the deciding factor and we all know Lewis is going to win another championship. :wink:
To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
Sir Stirling Moss

ubuysa
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Re: Leclerc's win in Monza signals the arrival of F1 reality TV

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At the time, my take was that the black & white flag was a sop and that Charles had got away with an overly aggressive move.

On calming down however I'm certain they were right. Charles isn't challenging for the WDC in any real sense and although Ferrari are challenging for the WCC, a Ferrari 1st and Mercedes 2nd doesn't do too much damage.

Thus the flag warning allowed the racing spectacle to continue but showed Charles he was on borrowed time. Had he got a +5 sec penalty it would have destroyed the race for everyone but not really made a massive difference to either the WDC or WCC.

If races, especially close ones, are being decided by penalties then people will stop watching.

However, we definitely need some consistency, so that if the situation had been reversed at Monza, Lewis would also have only got a warning flag. I rather suspect had that happened Lewis would have got a +5 sec.....

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izzy
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Re: Leclerc's win in Monza signals the arrival of F1 reality TV

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ubuysa wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 4:26 pm
At the time, my take was that the black & white flag was a sop and that Charles had got away with an overly aggressive move.

On calming down however I'm certain they were right. Charles isn't challenging for the WDC in any real sense and although Ferrari are challenging for the WCC, a Ferrari 1st and Mercedes 2nd doesn't do too much damage.

Thus the flag warning allowed the racing spectacle to continue but showed Charles he was on borrowed time. Had he got a +5 sec penalty it would have destroyed the race for everyone but not really made a massive difference to either the WDC or WCC.

If races, especially close ones, are being decided by penalties then people will stop watching.

However, we definitely need some consistency, so that if the situation had been reversed at Monza, Lewis would also have only got a warning flag. I rather suspect had that happened Lewis would have got a +5 sec.....

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You can't have consistency if you keep varying the penalty according to the immediate effect and whether you like it. You can only deter behaviour if you punish the behaviour, the same every time regardless.

Every time, so even racing drivers get that the behaviour doesn't pay off, and decide not to do it.

That's the way to reduce the number of penalties, and in fact the only way.

Charles' situation is only difficult because of all the various different or non penalties for that behaviour that had gone before. If he'd known he'd get a penalty he wouldn't have done it in the first place would he? Solution!!!

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hollus
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Re: Leclerc's win in Monza signals the arrival of F1 reality TV

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Speaking of 5 second penalties... did we get any in the last two races? Maybe Masi’s idea is to avoid those as much as possible?
¡Puxa Esportin!

cooken
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Re: Leclerc's win in Monza signals the arrival of F1 reality TV

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Time will tell how this new regime pans out, and whether there are unintended consequences or not.

The drivers will always try to exploit or bend the rules as much as possible. Definitely expect to see lots of black and white flags.

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Sniffit
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Re: Leclerc's win in Monza signals the arrival of F1 reality TV

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At the end of the day, if you can't pass another driver you are either to dumb or not fast enough. Let them race, if a driver chickens out that's on him/her.

Should abolish the steward function all together and have an inquiry board after the races if something serious went down, like for instance purposefully crashing into someone or similar.

In this instance Hamilton tried to pass but didn't have the speed to do so and Leclerc could successfully defend so Hamilton chickened out.

djones
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Re: Leclerc's win in Monza signals the arrival of F1 reality TV

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Personally I don't see any need to get caught up in the pushing and moving aspect.

The single thing that stood out to me was no penalty for going off the track, which very clearly meant the position would have been lost. This was a night and day penalty.

But yeah.... Ferrari needed to be helped to the win in Italy. The championship is totally over for them so I guess the FIA thinking was it does not really change anything.

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strad
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Re: Leclerc's win in Monza signals the arrival of F1 reality TV

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[...]
What gets me is they, the Hamilton fans, are more upset than Lewis. He said he had no problem and shook Leclerc's hand in parc ferme.
Last edited by Steven on Sat Sep 21, 2019 9:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Removed generalisation
To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
Sir Stirling Moss

marmer
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Re: Leclerc's win in Monza signals the arrival of F1 reality TV

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strad wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 7:05 pm
What gets me is they, the Hamilton fans, are more upset than Lewis. He said he had no problem and shook Leclerc's hand in parc ferme.
The reason for this i think hamilton on reflection would have done exactly the same if it had been his first year in mclaren or if it was a title fight and he was the lead car. do the risky slighty dirty move and hope to get away with it.