FIA-Ferrari PU Statement Controversy

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subcritical71
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Re: FIA-Ferrari PU Statement Controversy

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strad wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 9:14 pm
@TAG Absolutely right. Everyone not twisting like a trout on the line know how the FIA used the word "sanctioned". :lol:
To boot, there was a settlement. How does a positive use of the word sanction result in a settlement for Ferrari?! If it were a positive use of the word there would be no settlement.

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GPR-A
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Re: FIA-Ferrari PU Statement Controversy

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subcritical71 wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 9:29 pm
strad wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 9:14 pm
@TAG Absolutely right. Everyone not twisting like a trout on the line know how the FIA used the word "sanctioned". :lol:
To boot, there was a settlement. How does a positive use of the word sanction result in a settlement for Ferrari?! If it were a positive use of the word there would be no settlement.
FIA were saving their a** due to their incompetence. They knew Ferrari was doing something clever, but couldn't prove it. It's that helplessness and frustration that made them give such statements. It's like "We know there is something going on there, but we have no f***** clue what it is, so we pronounce a settlement and don't dare doing it next year".

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TAG
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Re: FIA-Ferrari PU Statement Controversy

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GPR-A wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 12:09 am
but we have no f***** clue what it is, so we pronounce a settlement and don't dare doing it next year".
Because Ferrari can't do it next year, because the loophole is closed, because they knew enough to close it. It's like using a 5lbs sledgehammer to hammer in a nail. It's not the ideal one you'd use to get the job done, but it got the job done. :)
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jumpingfish
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Re: FIA-Ferrari PU Statement Controversy

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TAG wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 8:45 pm
jumpingfish wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 9:19 am
Todt said twice in an interview that he said: give a protest against Ferrari, but neither Mercedes nor Red Bull did so. If Mercedes had 100% reliable information about what Ferrari did, but no protest was filed, this can only mean: or they don't know what exatly was in that engine-2019, or this information was obtained from someone who worked in Ferrari. Having filed a protest, they will immediately receive a retaliatory lawsuit about industrial espionage or something like this with huge losses of both money and reputation. What could Elkann tell the head of the concern Daimler that Toto Wolff was forced to abandon claims to the Ferrari engine and Mercedes as a result stepped aside?
Mercedes gets nothing for protesting. They won the championship despite the Ferrari (whatever they did) so why protest especially if the feel that a solution to whatever Ferrari was doing is addressed by the new (additional) encrypted sensor. For them to protest would cost them money and gain them nothing since in all likelihood they already feel order has been restored.
If Mercedes won nothing from Ferrari’s punishment, then why were they the “leaders of the gang of seven”? This did not happen in 2019, when it was not clear whether technical directives had limited the speed of the SF90 or not. This happened after the tests, when Binotto said that the SF1000 did not have speed on straight lines. According to you, Mercedes had no need to organize written requests and lead the remaining 6 teams bombing with letters to the FIA ​​and Todt.
I think Wolff (Mercedes) had several reasons to put pressure on Ferrari, even if they won both championships. This is either a fear that Ferrari’s engine will retain an advantage for the period 2020-2024, or Toto’s personal revenge because his possible FIA ​​/ Liberty candidacy could be blocked by the Italian veto, or pressure on Ferrari to weaken the Italians’s position on making decisions on technical regulations / veto / prize payments.
Ok, if we do not know the exact reasons why Mercedes was the initiator of requests to the FIA ​​after the agreement, then why did Red Bull not protest when Todt asked for it? After all, it was Red Bull (Verstappen) who announced the cheating and Marko threatened with protests, and Horner calculated how many millions could get for disqualification of the Ferrari. It was Marko who claimed that Mercedes had given Red Bull information about what could happen to an unclean engine.

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GPR-A
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Re: FIA-Ferrari PU Statement Controversy

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TAG wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 2:51 am
GPR-A wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 12:09 am
but we have no f***** clue what it is, so we pronounce a settlement and don't dare doing it next year".
Because Ferrari can't do it next year, because the loophole is closed, because they knew enough to close it. It's like using a 5lbs sledgehammer to hammer in a nail. It's not the ideal one you'd use to get the job done, but it got the job done. :)
Huh. You have a crystal ball for next year. You put so much trust in FIA to fix things!

saviour stivala
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Re: FIA-Ferrari PU Statement Controversy

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Looks and sounds like he does have a crystal ball and it looks like he is not alone in having one. Having one is advantageous when it comes to expressing an unbiased opinion.

dans79
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Re: FIA-Ferrari PU Statement Controversy

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GPR-A wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 6:25 am
TAG wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 2:51 am
GPR-A wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 12:09 am
but we have no f***** clue what it is, so we pronounce a settlement and don't dare doing it next year".
Because Ferrari can't do it next year, because the loophole is closed, because they knew enough to close it. It's like using a 5lbs sledgehammer to hammer in a nail. It's not the ideal one you'd use to get the job done, but it got the job done. :)
Huh. You have a crystal ball for next year. You put so much trust in FIA to fix things!
My trust lies more with the other teams watching the FIA and Ferrari like hawks. I fully expect that if anything looks even remotely fishy the other teams will swoop in with talons at the ready!
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LM10
LM10
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Re: FIA-Ferrari PU Statement Controversy

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dans79 wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 7:46 am
GPR-A wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 6:25 am
TAG wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 2:51 am


Because Ferrari can't do it next year, because the loophole is closed, because they knew enough to close it. It's like using a 5lbs sledgehammer to hammer in a nail. It's not the ideal one you'd use to get the job done, but it got the job done. :)
Huh. You have a crystal ball for next year. You put so much trust in FIA to fix things!
My trust lies more with the other teams watching the FIA and Ferrari like hawks. I fully expect that if anything looks even remotely fishy the other teams will swoop in with talons at the ready!
You're right, I would do that too if i were the other teams. But the question is, what would this "swoop in with talons at the ready" look like?
At the end, none of the teams have filed a protest until now, for whatever reason. They basically have just been loud, asking the FIA for clarification and telling their opinion in interviews. If I had been absolutely sure about a cheat, I would have protested. This way, the allegedly cheating team would have been disqualified, my team would have gotten tons of extra money and on top of that, the cheat would have come to daylight with all it's details. Totally win-win situation for the protester.
Are Mercedes or RedBull afraid of protesting? If so, why? Maybe they know way too much about Ferrari's PU and the FIA would ask them how they were able to understand the trick to such extends when even the FIA was not able to with the actual PU in their hands. Cheating is not a nice thing, but espionage is not either.

saviour stivala
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Re: FIA-Ferrari PU Statement Controversy

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There should be no doubt that is apart from the doubters themselves. That if Mercedes and red bull had solid evidence of wrong doings by FERRARI they would have officially protested because gains of millions of $ were involved. This long drawn polemic/suspicions/accusations of 101 wrong doing of sorts by FERRARI had finally settled on FERRARI having been tricking the FFM reading. This conclusion was arrived at after Mercedes researched their perceived suspicion. The results of which for one reason or another they handed over to red bull to push forward instead of them doing so. Mercedes didn’t push-out their researched results themselves because they could not prove that FERRARI was doing so. Instead red bull pushed it forward in the form of an inquiry to the FIA asking if using the perceived tricking of the FFM system would be legal or not. The FIA answer was negative. The FIA also know that their answer was not going to soften the negative fomenting of these wrong doing suspicion promptly mandated the use of a second FFM whose reading could be read only by them.

Skippon
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Re: FIA-Ferrari PU Statement Controversy

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I guess the other PU manufacturers know what Ferrarri are doing - just not the details of how they did it (In the case of Merc did not Lorenzo Sassi transfer from Ferrari to HPP two years ago) - so what is to be gained by protesting?
From the FIA perspective as there is no hardware change to implement the cheat - just "software calibration"; so there is no physical evidence of it. But if the FIA release details of how it was done, it leave other manufacturers able to copy the cheat and/or use it for other sensors!!!

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bluechris
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Re: FIA-Ferrari PU Statement Controversy

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1119 posts with noone knows anything concrete but i still read from people that are certain that Ferrari cheated. Great info here really... carry on guys.. now the ball turned to "why Ferrari doesnt sue the other teams". People need to understand that the thing is finished. FIA moved on, all the other teams moved on, even Mercedes backed out completely but still here this must continue to accuse of Ferrari cheating without a single damn proof...

Just_a_fan
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Re: FIA-Ferrari PU Statement Controversy

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bluechris wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 10:46 am
all the other teams moved on,
Except for McLaren and Red Bull who are both still not happy and are making statements. So, no, all the other teams haven't moved on.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

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LM10
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Re: FIA-Ferrari PU Statement Controversy

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Skippon wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 10:30 am
I guess the other PU manufacturers know what Ferrarri are doing - just not the details of how they did it (In the case of Merc did not Lorenzo Sassi transfer from Ferrari to HPP two years ago) - so what is to be gained by protesting?
From the FIA perspective as there is no hardware change to implement the cheat - just "software calibration"; so there is no physical evidence of it. But if the FIA release details of how it was done, it leave other manufacturers able to copy the cheat and/or use it for other sensors!!!
I've written what is to be gained by protesting in my last post. Why do teams need details to protest? If they're sure of it, that's enough.

saviour stivala
saviour stivala
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Re: FIA-Ferrari PU Statement Controversy

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bluechris wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 10:46 am
1119 posts with noone knows anything concrete but i still read from people that are certain that Ferrari cheated. Great info here really... carry on guys.. now the ball turned to "why Ferrari doesnt sue the other teams". People need to understand that the thing is finished. FIA moved on, all the other teams moved on, even Mercedes backed out completely but still here this must continue to accuse of Ferrari cheating without a single damn proof...
But they are so sure not only that FERRARI ******** but now also that the FIA are not policing the rules as they should. The end result now is the FERRARI lovers guns have to share two targets instead of one. That is FERRARI and the FIA.

dans79
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Re: FIA-Ferrari PU Statement Controversy

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saviour stivala wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 11:35 am
But they are so sure not only that FERRARI ******** but now also that the FIA are not policing the rules as they should.
hea, as the saying goes where there's smoke there's fire.
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