FIA-Ferrari PU Statement Controversy

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DChemTech
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Re: FIA-Ferrari PU Statement Controversy

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Mandrake wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:24 pm
DChemTech wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:19 pm
Chene_Mostert wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:14 pm


the only reason they are open with "DAS" is because it is visible.
Still Mercedes did address the legality of DAS with FIA themselves, which already is a completely different mindset than that of Ferrari.
Up to now we still do not know what DAS actually does for a benefit. Merc probably told the FIA it is completely not aero. Once a clever mind comes up it has a considerable aero benefit you can expect all hell breaking loose on Mercs DAS as well. If Ferrari were able to outsmart the fuel flow in a way other competitors were not, they wozuld surely not ask the FIA if that was possible as the FIA would close that loophole immediately (which they did later with the introduction of the 2nd sensor)
Correct, as stated in a previous post, if other teams suspect the benefits are (mainly) in active aero/suspension, other teams could and should protest, and the FIA needs to re-evaluate accordingly. So let's call DAS provisionally legal. The main difference with Ferrari remains, they were not secretive about it. Not to the other teams and not to the FIA. Of course, how they would act towards other teams could be different if DAS was not visible. But that's speculation.

snowy
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Re: FIA-Ferrari PU Statement Controversy

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gshevlin wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:35 pm
We do not know if Ferrari ever contacted the FIA to ask about the legality of any procedure or device that they intended to use on their fuel system or in their powerplant. Such discussions between teams and the FIA are supposed to be confidential. Until the FIA or Ferrari reveals more information, we can only speculate.
The fact that the FIA impounded a Ferrari PU and took it to pieces tends toward dispelling any doubts about prior knowledge or if the FIA was in the loop or out of it...

snowy
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Re: FIA-Ferrari PU Statement Controversy

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Marc Priestley doesn't pull his punches: AskElvis!

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Re: FIA-Ferrari PU Statement Controversy

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Does anyone know if this statement/settlement mess is Masi or is it a different grouping within the FIA? I don’t know much about the FIA heirachy.
Team ANTI-HYPE. Prove it, then I’ll anoint you.

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Chene_Mostert
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Re: FIA-Ferrari PU Statement Controversy

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snowy wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:40 pm
gshevlin wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:35 pm
We do not know if Ferrari ever contacted the FIA to ask about the legality of any procedure or device that they intended to use on their fuel system or in their powerplant. Such discussions between teams and the FIA are supposed to be confidential. Until the FIA or Ferrari reveals more information, we can only speculate.
The fact that the FIA impounded a Ferrari PU and took it to pieces tends toward dispelling any doubts about prior knowledge or if the FIA was in the loop or out of it...
Exactly, they were searching... had no basis except thought and feelings from others. hence the settlement.
I'm sure Ferrari retaliated with threats of legal action.
as for this "theory" of power loss, we shall see... they were too obvious with their low power...
"Science at its best is an open-minded method of inquiry, not a belief system." - Rupert Sheldrake

dtro
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Re: FIA-Ferrari PU Statement Controversy

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In the grand scheme of having drivers crash intentionally so another driver can take advantage and win, or having your team's drivers conduct an illegal tire test, having an engine of questionable legality to the extent that even the governing body is incapable of discerning it's legality without going into the nuts, bolts, valves and so on is somewhere in the middle.

Fact is teams constantly push the boundaries of what the rules permit- sometimes they go over those boundaries.

gshevlin
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Re: FIA-Ferrari PU Statement Controversy

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Ferrari may have retaliated by refusing to sign the new 2021 onwards F1 participation contracts, and/or renewing their threat (which they always try every so often) to leave F1.

gshevlin
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Re: FIA-Ferrari PU Statement Controversy

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Chene_Mostert wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:58 pm
Exactly, they were searching... had no basis except thought and feelings from others. hence the settlement.
I'm sure Ferrari retaliated with threats of legal action.
as for this "theory" of power loss, we shall see... they were too obvious with their low power...
Um, the evidence that Ferrari's engine was delivering anomalously higher top-end power was there in the public telemetry data for all to see from the early part of the 2019 season. The basis was measurement of fact. Not "thoughts and feelings".

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Chene_Mostert
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Re: FIA-Ferrari PU Statement Controversy

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gshevlin wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 4:12 pm
Chene_Mostert wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:58 pm
Exactly, they were searching... had no basis except thought and feelings from others. hence the settlement.
I'm sure Ferrari retaliated with threats of legal action.
as for this "theory" of power loss, we shall see... they were too obvious with their low power...
Um, the evidence that Ferrari's engine was delivering anomalously higher top-end power was there in the public telemetry data for all to see from the early part of the 2019 season. The basis was measurement of fact. Not "thoughts and feelings".
Is there a limit to the power these PU's must deliver? So when Mercedes AMG was the most powerfull (we could see that on telemetry) did they cheat?
"Science at its best is an open-minded method of inquiry, not a belief system." - Rupert Sheldrake

V12-POWER
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Re: FIA-Ferrari PU Statement Controversy

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Who would’ve guessed. I find it funny that anyone with a pinch of common sense realizes how biased the FIA is yet all we get here is total Mercedes fanboyism. The only guy who disagrees was downvoted to hell lmao.

Head up to the F1 instagram account and check out the comments regarding the matter, people are not stupid. You can use a mask for so long before it’s taken off and this is obvious.

The argument pro-DAS is because of “transparency” - then this makes it a transparent joke. Only on F1circus.net you’ll see such blatant fanboyism and hey it’s a technical forum!

I’m pretty sure the FIA would crash ferrari down if they could get away with it. This leads me to believe that the whistleblower story is legit and then imagine the headlines. There’s a huge con going on behind the scenes

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Re: FIA-Ferrari PU Statement Controversy

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Chene_Mostert wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 4:16 pm
Is there a limit to the power these PU's must deliver? So when Mercedes AMG was the most powerfull (we could see that on telemetry) did they cheat?
Yes, there's a limit to the thermal efficiency of the PU's, Mercedes are very near the practical limits so for Ferrari to leap frog them is evidence in itself imo they were cheating! You can only get so much power out of the mandated fuel flow limit.
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

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turbof1
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Re: FIA-Ferrari PU Statement Controversy

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djos wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 4:26 pm
Chene_Mostert wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 4:16 pm
Is there a limit to the power these PU's must deliver? So when Mercedes AMG was the most powerfull (we could see that on telemetry) did they cheat?
Mercedes are very near the practical limits so for Ferrari to leap frog them is evidence in itself imo they were cheating!
That is rediculous. I know what you are getting at, but let us not use one team's accomplishments as tool to determine cheating.
#AeroFrodo

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Lotus102
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Re: FIA-Ferrari PU Statement Controversy

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KeiKo403 wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 2:14 pm
From the statement: ""The FIA and Scuderia Ferrari have agreed to a number of technical commitments that will improve the monitoring of all Formula 1 power units for forthcoming championship seasons"

I don't understand this line and how Ferrari can assist with monitoring other manufactures PU's. I'm sure I'm reading it wrong but I don't know how that should be interpreted.
I read it as 'Ferrari have told us what they did after we agreed that we would take no action, and that insight will help us know what to look for in other people's PUs'

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Re: FIA-Ferrari PU Statement Controversy

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turbof1 wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 2:52 pm
djones wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 2:50 pm
I'd love to see a modified point and qualifying result table for 2019 if Ferrari were not in it.

Hamilton was probably robbed of about 5 pole positions for a start.
I do want to warn against these kind of assumptions. Yes, I fully understand it feels and looks like full on cover up at this point. I am neither preaching naïvity. But, as it is now we don't fully grasp what the situation really is (due to the absolute lack of information).
By design, the lack of information is by design.
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dans79
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Re: FIA-Ferrari PU Statement Controversy

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turbof1 wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 4:31 pm
djos wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 4:26 pm
Chene_Mostert wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 4:16 pm
Is there a limit to the power these PU's must deliver? So when Mercedes AMG was the most powerfull (we could see that on telemetry) did they cheat?
Mercedes are very near the practical limits so for Ferrari to leap frog them is evidence in itself imo they were cheating!
That is rediculous. I know what you are getting at, but let us not use one team's accomplishments as tool to determine cheating.
Perhaps their should be a clamp down on some members overzealous defense of Ferrari, because that's really what is driving the issue you are trying to prevent.
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