The Sky panels Top 5 drivers.

[izzy]

Fernando was amazing in 2007. He was faster to start with, then Lewis caught up so Fernando stopped sharing his setups and was faster again, then after Spa Lewis had a big rethink with his engineers and redid his setups making them less on the nose and was faster again, but Fernando held it together even in the middle of Spygate and all that, huge, huge pressure. They were both amazing. Fernando should've won 2010 that would've changed so much, Marco Mattiachi probably wouldn't have dared to confront him, or perhaps he wouldn't have replaced Stefano to start with, and then Fernando would've been driving the 2017 and 2018 Ferraris...

[Wass85]

The question is did Alonso ever use Hamilton's setups or was it just one way traffic?

If it is the latter than it's to be expected he was miffed with the team, Lewis moaned just as much when Rosberg was doing the same.

On the recent podcast Pedro de la Rosa basically confirms this and mentioned Alonso was purposely driving slow in practice to throw Hamilton off scent.

This brings up another interesting point, would Hamilton have been as great as he was making his debut against a journeyman of the sport?

[Jolle]

The question is did Alonso ever use Hamilton's setups or was it just one way traffic?

If it is the latter than it's to be expected he was miffed with the team, Lewis moaned just as much when Rosberg was doing the same.

On the recent podcast Pedro de la Rosa basically confirms this and mentioned Alonso was purposely driving slow in practice to throw Hamilton off scent.

This brings up another interesting point, would Hamilton have been as great as he was making his debut against a journeyman of the sport?

Moaning about someone using your data is one thing, trying to corrupt that data by underdelivering is a whole thing all together. Formula one is a team sport. Sometimes with two strikers and sometimes with one. If you can’t pass the ball to let your teammate score, you’re not a good footballer. Same goes for drivers. If this is true, no wonder no team is interested in giving him a seat.

[kimetic]

Hamilton always had respect for Alonso and said so, that was the basis for their rapprochement later. And vice-versa. It's all so intense these days, they all have their moments, but Alonso did alienate the team, siding with Mosley, and that never works. Though they took him back in the end, says a lot.

[Jolle]

Hamilton always had respect for Alonso and said so, that was the basis for their rapprochement later. And vice-versa. It's all so intense these days, they all have their moments, but Alonso did alienate the team, siding with Mosley, and that never works. Though they took him back in the end, says a lot.

Ron Dennis learned from PM never hold a grudge when an opportunity comes around. His McLaren of 2015 was modelled after the old McLaren-PM days, with two top drivers, Honda of course and bold predictions. In 2007, not only Daimler was McLarens biggest shareholder with an option to take over total control, Stuttgart personel was also controlling the board. Alonso was a Mercedes employee, even more he was paid by Honda in 2015-2017. Daimler by the way does hold a grudge (as does Honda)

[Wass85]

Great insight on the Alonso/Hamilton pairing on this podcast.

Interesting to hear that Monaco was the beginning of the end for Alonso. Despite everything I've read Alonso was much quicker than Hamilton and was merely sandbagging. After the race management told Alonso basically that was Hamilton's race which pissed him off massively.

[Wass85]

God knows, never worked right on my mobile.

[Just_a_fan]

Wass85 - why do you keep quoting your own posts? Is it an issue with your browser or something?

[Just_a_fan]

This brings up another interesting point, would Hamilton have been as great as he was making his debut against a journeyman of the sport?

Hamilton's first test with McLaren. de la Rosa was reasonably quicker in the first session. Talked to the engineers. Yeah, Lewis is ok but he's got a lot to learn blah, blah.

Second session, de la Rosa came back in to the find that Hamilton was much quicker than him. He was monstering through Becketts etc. At that point, de la Rosa said that he knew that Hamilton was something special.

Hamilton is one of those drivers that can drive around a car's issues. Button has said this in interviews about their time together. He liked a car to be in his sweet spot in order to be quick. Hamilton would go out and still be quick anyway. Give him a car in the sweet spot and he goes even quicker.

That's from drivers who worked with him.

Another thought. If Alonso's data was so crucial to Hamilton, it's interesting that Hamilton was on the podium for the first 9 races of 2007. Alonso missed the podium 3 times in those first 9 races. Hamilton took 6 poles in 2007 to Alonso's 2.

[Wass85]

This brings up another interesting point, would Hamilton have been as great as he was making his debut against a journeyman of the sport?

Hamilton's first test with McLaren. de la Rosa was reasonably quicker in the first session. Talked to the engineers. Yeah, Lewis is ok but he's got a lot to learn blah, blah.

Second session, de la Rosa came back in to the find that Hamilton was much quicker than him. He was monstering through Becketts etc. At that point, de la Rosa said that he knew that Hamilton was something special.

Hamilton is one of those drivers that can drive around a car's issues. Button has said this in interviews about their time together. He liked a car to be in his sweet spot in order to be quick. Hamilton would go out and still be quick anyway. Give him a car in the sweet spot and he goes even quicker.

That's from drivers who worked with him.

Another thought. If Alonso's data was so crucial to Hamilton, it's interesting that Hamilton was on the podium for the first 9 races of 2007. Alonso missed the podium 3 times in those first 9 races. Hamilton took 6 poles in 2007 to Alonso's 2.

Let's not try and pretend though that Alonso failed to reach the podium due to a lack of pace.

He had great race pace for plenty of the season and was quite a lot quicker than Hamilton for the most part although admittedly he made quite a few mistakes as well.

[izzy]

Another thought. If Alonso's data was so crucial to Hamilton, it's interesting that Hamilton was on the podium for the first 9 races of 2007. Alonso missed the podium 3 times in those first 9 races. Hamilton took 6 poles in 2007 to Alonso's 2.

Fernando kept getting it wrong on braking, like going off, while Lewis was great at applying a huge initial load while there was lots of downforce and then easing it off. I think Brembo or whoever it was was new to Fernando as well, also he is a bit smaller so perhaps he was nearer his maximum effort which is harder to modulate

And yes Lewis has incredible car control, on old tyres he's like nobody else, it's why they left him out in China ...

[Wass85]

Another thought. If Alonso's data was so crucial to Hamilton, it's interesting that Hamilton was on the podium for the first 9 races of 2007. Alonso missed the podium 3 times in those first 9 races. Hamilton took 6 poles in 2007 to Alonso's 2.

Fernando kept getting it wrong on braking, like going off, while Lewis was great at applying a huge initial load while there was lots of downforce and then easing it off. I think Brembo or whoever it was was new to Fernando as well, also he is a bit smaller so perhaps he was nearer his maximum effort which is harder to modulate

And yes Lewis has incredible car control, on old tyres he's like nobody else, it's why they left him out in China ...

Come on you don't buy this do you?

After all those laps in testing a driver of Alonso's calibre would have solved it in no time.

Alonso had better race pace than Hamilton for the majority of the season. He just couldn't handle the speed of Lewis and started cracking from the pressure due to frustration.

[kimetic]

Hamilton always had respect for Alonso and said so, that was the basis for their rapprochement later. And vice-versa. It's all so intense these days, they all have their moments, but Alonso did alienate the team, siding with Mosley, and that never works. Though they took him back in the end, says a lot.

Ron Dennis learned from PM never hold a grudge when an opportunity comes around. His McLaren of 2015 was modelled after the old McLaren-PM days, with two top drivers, Honda of course and bold predictions. In 2007, not only Daimler was McLarens biggest shareholder with an option to take over total control, Stuttgart personel was also controlling the board. Alonso was a Mercedes employee, even more he was paid by Honda in 2015-2017. Daimler by the way does hold a grudge (as does Honda)

Yes Ron, one of the greats, it's a disgrace he hasn't had a knighthood like Frank. He was so right about re-hiring Alonso, so wrong about Honda at the time. But F1 had moved beyond his style by then, they needed more than an engine.

[Just_a_fan]

Alonso had better race pace than Hamilton for the majority of the season. He just couldn't handle the speed of Lewis and started cracking from the pressure due to frustration.

So, he wasn't that great then? If he cracked under the pressure, had a bad season, then he's not "great", right?

Don't forget, Hamilton was in his first season in F1 and sharing the garage with the current double world champion. Who he beat over the course of the season. How many excuses does Alonso get in order to show that Hamilton wasn't that good after all?

[Wass85]

Alonso had better race pace than Hamilton for the majority of the season. He just couldn't handle the speed of Lewis and started cracking from the pressure due to frustration.

So, he wasn't that great then? If he cracked under the pressure, had a bad season, then he's not "great", right?

Don't forget, Hamilton was in his first season in F1 and sharing the garage with the current double world champion. Who he beat over the course of the season. How many excuses does Alonso get in order to show that Hamilton wasn't that good after all?

It definitely needs to be considered when he's in the discussion for the best driver of all time.

Even if the data sharing only benefitted Hamilton, Alonso should have had the class to beat a rookie.

It's like this, they could give me every last detail of Alonso's telemetry but I would never beat him in a month of Sundays.

It's true, Hamilton handled the pressure better that year but the circumstances do affect things. Lewis had nothing to lose and didn't have the pressure Alonso had.