TDs vs ERS power management and oil consumption

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subcritical71
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Re: TDs vs ERS power management and oil consumption

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saviour stivala wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 5:01 pm
The regulations contains an ‘ERS energy-flow diagram’ which at least to me means that is the only acceptable way the ‘ERS energy-flows’ according to the rules. The regulations also mandates what they believe are the necessary policing ‘sensors’ to be able to police ERS energy-flows in accordance with said energy-flow diagram.
According to ‘TD 0018/20’ an extra sensor is being mandated to measure ERS electrical power distribution.
If there was any doubt about any of the previous mandated sensors not being capable of policing the ‘energy-flow’ according to ‘energy-flow’ diagram, that sensor would have been replaced by an improved one.
An additional sensor only means that ‘possible’ ‘energy-flow’ other than what is shown on official ‘energy-flow’ diagram is going to be policed.
All the reports I have seen said the sensor was improved, not an additional sensor. Do you have the actual TD to confirm? Otherwise I think its a guessing game at who is doing a better job at reporting vs who is copy/pasting.

Polite
Polite
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Re: TDs vs ERS power management and oil consumption

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nzjrs wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 1:33 pm
Polite wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 1:19 pm
nzjrs wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 4:20 pm
I hope nobody replied because your framing is an invitation for another troll thread like every other thread discussing the ferarri PU and the settlement with the FIA.
sorry for that but is not my intention.

as Henry said, it s impossible to find those TDs..
Fair enough, I probbably overreacted, my apologies.

I also wish the TDs were published. I'm kind of amazed they are not leaked more frequently either.
:)

"they are not leaked more frequently either"...
as far as i remember, the directives leaked only during the race weekends. it is not nice that the FIA ​​does not publish them

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subcritical71
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Re: TDs vs ERS power management and oil consumption

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I don’t see the secrecy behind not releasing the TDs. It’s not like there will be a team that did not also get it. Seems arbitrary leftover from some bygone era in f you ask me.

saviour stivala
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Re: TDs vs ERS power management and oil consumption

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subcritical71 wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 1:56 pm
saviour stivala wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 5:01 pm
The regulations contains an ‘ERS energy-flow diagram’ which at least to me means that is the only acceptable way the ‘ERS energy-flows’ according to the rules. The regulations also mandates what they believe are the necessary policing ‘sensors’ to be able to police ERS energy-flows in accordance with said energy-flow diagram.
According to ‘TD 0018/20’ an extra sensor is being mandated to measure ERS electrical power distribution.
If there was any doubt about any of the previous mandated sensors not being capable of policing the ‘energy-flow’ according to ‘energy-flow’ diagram, that sensor would have been replaced by an improved one.
An additional sensor only means that ‘possible’ ‘energy-flow’ other than what is shown on official ‘energy-flow’ diagram is going to be policed.
All the reports I have seen said the sensor was improved, not an additional sensor. Do you have the actual TD to confirm? Otherwise I think its a guessing game at who is doing a better job at reporting vs who is copy/pasting.
TD0018/20, Concerns an update to the IVT sensor, the device that measures the 'electrical power distribution of the energy recovered by the ERS system.

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RZS10
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Re: TDs vs ERS power management and oil consumption

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According to MST those TDs are proactive and based on input from other teams, not just Ferrari in their forced cooperation with the FIA.

TD/018-20 is as stivala posted above about the new ERS sensor which will be used by all teams later on in the season, they also supposedly limited the frequency at which ERS power can be pulled from the system, preventing that sudden changes of the demanded power level could interfere with the proper function of the sensor(s).

TD/019-20 concerns the 0.3L/100km oil limit, contains details about it's enforcement, measurement etc, also supposedly something about stopping the teams from adding oil and/or using lubricants to transport chemicals into the fuel.

TD/020-20 contains information about the fuel flow, pressure and temperature sensors.

TD/021-20 is about how they'll enforce the rules about fuel usage and the methods used to do it or something like that ...

saviour stivala
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Re: TDs vs ERS power management and oil consumption

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Why is ‘extra’ harvesting against the technical regulations?’.
Quote (What’s called ‘extra’ harvesting is about taking advantage of unlimited exchange of energy between ‘H’ and ‘ES’, MGU-K > MGU-H > ES instead of MGU-K > ES. It is only 2MJ /lap with MGU-K > ES, but with MGU-K > MGU-H > ES, you have ‘extra few MJ’S added on top of the original 2MJ.) Reference:- (F1 technical.net Honda power unit hardware and software page 897) or to:- (amazon.co. JP/motorsport %E 3%...EKG1AM95JR). Or to (amazon.co.JP > motorsport technology 2017-2018 motor fan separate volume Japanese mook-2017/12/15).
The regulations clearly shows energy flow in an energy flow diagram with a control management sensor connected to measure all electrical energy into or out of ‘ES’. And a sensor connected to measure all electrical energy into and out of ‘K’.
As TD0018/20. Concerns an update to the IVT sensor. The device that measures the electrical power distribution of energy ‘recovery’ by the ERS system. It does not concern recovery pathways which are stated as ‘unlimitted’.
Technically, the recovery pathway ‘MGU-K > MGU-H > ES cannot exist because when MGU-K is harvesting and so producing electrical energy, that electrical energy can go either to storage/ES which is limited to a max of 2MJ/lap, or unlimited to MGU-H. When directed to MGU-H it is only meant to power the MGU-H and not be diverted to Storage/ES. When the MGU-H is powered by electrical energy from the MGU-K it is meant to in turn power the turbine and not produce electrical energy.