Why Verstappen will NOT win in 2020

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Wass85
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Re: Why Verstappen will NOT win in 2020

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tangodjango wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:21 pm
Wass85 wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:44 pm
tangodjango wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:40 pm


That can again be countered with how do you know it just wasn't a case of Senna stressing and damaging his car and engine more than Prost? We can repeat this loop ad infinitum.
Well exactly, it's pure guesswork on both sides and if it hasn't been brought up by anybody that's worked with the pair then he should be given the benefit of the doubt.

The facts are Senna suffered from more failures than Prost whilst they were teammates.
Numerous sources who worked with both of them and Honda (who used to supply Senna with the best engines) and Brembo technicians have said Prost put less stress on his car, if you don't want to accept this inspite of what seems to be your lack of knowledge about racing in the 1980's and 1990's, that's fine, I won't belabor the point

"Alain Prost, one of Ayrton Senna's biggest rivals, had a very different driving and braking style compared to Senna's. He was less aggressive towards his single seater and the braking system.
His accuracy and clean style meant he did not stress the pedal. That's why the Frenchman didn't have any particular requests for Brembo engineers. He didn't want short nor particularly sturdy pedals, neither did he ever bring the system to extreme levels."

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/the- ... so/641644/
So you're saying that most of Senna's failures were brake failures, I'm assuming that's the case from the link you posted?

dans79
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Re: Why Verstappen will NOT win in 2020

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Wass85 wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:14 pm
...
Hamilton was literally mentioned in the second post in this thread, and has been regularly since then.

Some people don't like it, but you are going to have a real hard time talking about anything F1 that isn't a technical topic, and not have Hamilton come into the discussion. It's no different than any other point in F1 history, when A driver was dominating. All other drivers are compared and contrasted to that driver, because he is the benchmark for that time period.
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tangodjango
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Re: Why Verstappen will NOT win in 2020

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Wass85 wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:28 pm
tangodjango wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:21 pm
Wass85 wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:44 pm


Well exactly, it's pure guesswork on both sides and if it hasn't been brought up by anybody that's worked with the pair then he should be given the benefit of the doubt.

The facts are Senna suffered from more failures than Prost whilst they were teammates.
Numerous sources who worked with both of them and Honda (who used to supply Senna with the best engines) and Brembo technicians have said Prost put less stress on his car, if you don't want to accept this inspite of what seems to be your lack of knowledge about racing in the 1980's and 1990's, that's fine, I won't belabor the point

"Alain Prost, one of Ayrton Senna's biggest rivals, had a very different driving and braking style compared to Senna's. He was less aggressive towards his single seater and the braking system.
His accuracy and clean style meant he did not stress the pedal. That's why the Frenchman didn't have any particular requests for Brembo engineers. He didn't want short nor particularly sturdy pedals, neither did he ever bring the system to extreme levels."

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/the- ... so/641644/
So you're saying that most of Senna's failures were brake failures, I'm assuming that's the case from the link you posted?
I posted one of the sources which mentioned a particular aspect of Prost's driving was being easier on the car. You are free to twist that into anything you like since you are an expert in changing goalposts and what-aboutery.
Last edited by tangodjango on Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“Hamilton’s talent is perhaps even more than that of Ayrton or Schumacher or Fernando." - Rubens Barrichello

Wass85
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Re: Why Verstappen will NOT win in 2020

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tangodjango wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:37 pm
Wass85 wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:28 pm
tangodjango wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:21 pm

Numerous sources who worked with both of them and Honda (who used to supply Senna with the best engines) and Brembo technicians have said Prost put less stress on his car, if you don't want to accept this inspite of what seems to be your lack of knowledge about racing in the 1980's and 1990's, that's fine, I won't belabor the point

"Alain Prost, one of Ayrton Senna's biggest rivals, had a very different driving and braking style compared to Senna's. He was less aggressive towards his single seater and the braking system.
His accuracy and clean style meant he did not stress the pedal. That's why the Frenchman didn't have any particular requests for Brembo engineers. He didn't want short nor particularly sturdy pedals, neither did he ever bring the system to extreme levels."

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/the- ... so/641644/
So you're saying that most of Senna's failures were brake failures, I'm assuming that's the case from the link you posted?
I posted one of the sources which mentioned a particular aspect of Prost's driving was being easier on the car. You are free to twist that into anything you like since you are an expert in changing goalposts and what-aboutery.
Being harder on the brakes doesn't mean you're more prone to suffer engine failures does it?

tangodjango
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Re: Why Verstappen will NOT win in 2020

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Wass85 wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:45 pm
tangodjango wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:37 pm
Wass85 wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:28 pm


So you're saying that most of Senna's failures were brake failures, I'm assuming that's the case from the link you posted?
I posted one of the sources which mentioned a particular aspect of Prost's driving was being easier on the car. You are free to twist that into anything you like since you are an expert in changing goalposts and what-aboutery.
Being harder on the brakes doesn't mean you're more prone to suffer engine failures does it?
Once again I mention one of the sources regarding one aspect of their driving. You can find sources that will tell you the same thing with regard to their respective engine management.
“Hamilton’s talent is perhaps even more than that of Ayrton or Schumacher or Fernando." - Rubens Barrichello

Wass85
Wass85
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Re: Why Verstappen will NOT win in 2020

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dans79 wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:30 pm
Wass85 wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:14 pm
...
Hamilton was literally mentioned in the second post in this thread, and has been regularly since then.

Some people don't like it, but you are going to have a real hard time talking about anything F1 that isn't a technical topic, and not have Hamilton come into the discussion. It's no different than any other point in F1 history, when A driver was dominating. All other drivers are compared and contrasted to that driver, because he is the benchmark for that time period.
But this is specifically a Verstappen thread so I don't know why certain posters are getting excited when I and others post about him.

Wass85
Wass85
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Re: Why Verstappen will NOT win in 2020

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tangodjango wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:47 pm
Wass85 wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:45 pm
tangodjango wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:37 pm

I posted one of the sources which mentioned a particular aspect of Prost's driving was being easier on the car. You are free to twist that into anything you like since you are an expert in changing goalposts and what-aboutery.
Being harder on the brakes doesn't mean you're more prone to suffer engine failures does it?
Once again I mention one of the sources regarding one aspect of their driving. You can find sources that will tell you the same thing with regard to their respective engine management.
I think you're just relaying the narrative that Senna was a car killer when I think it's unfair to the man to do that without any evidence, I don't think him being heavy on the brakes is sufficient enough IMO.

dans79
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Re: Why Verstappen will NOT win in 2020

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Wass85 wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:47 pm
dans79 wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:30 pm
Hamilton was literally mentioned in the second post in this thread, and has been regularly since then.

Some people don't like it, but you are going to have a real hard time talking about anything F1 that isn't a technical topic, and not have Hamilton come into the discussion. It's no different than any other point in F1 history, when A driver was dominating. All other drivers are compared and contrasted to that driver, because he is the benchmark for that time period.
But this is specifically a Verstappen thread so I don't know why certain posters are getting excited when I and others post about him.
As I said, Lewis has been brought into the thread very early, and is literally mentioned 10's to dozens of times a page.

Also as i said, he is the benchmark and who Max is going to be compared to as long as he continues to race. Look at the WDC standings, Max would be leading if it wasn't for Lewis, he'd also probably have another win if it wasn't for Lewis.
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Sieper
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Re: Why Verstappen will NOT win in 2020

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Yes, that is actually the first time I think? That Max is in P2, he has been creeping up the list. Last year ended P3 even though Ferrari was the nr 2 (or nr 1?, no 2 imho) car, that was already impressive.

I think nobody here has a problem with mentioning Hamilton, sure this thread is aptly named, Hamilton is the only one keeping Max from winning 2020 (possibly Bottas will prevail) but I agree with Wass that as soon as someone (like in this case Jenson Button) praises Max we have a few people who have a very hard time with that. Let it slide, people. Better for you and for the others as well.
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Sieper
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Re: Why Verstappen will NOT win in 2020

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100% agree with moore, who I certainly not always agree with but who has always been well behaved and discussing with reason instead of just letting emotions run.
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Moore77
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Re: Why Verstappen will NOT win in 2020

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Schuttelberg wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 2:49 pm
If, Hamilton has the best car, he will win. If Verstappen has it, he will. If, the two cars and teams are close, it's really anyone's game. It will depend on their form then and which team/driver combination makes lesser errors. It's pretty much as simple as that.
I have seen this post from Schuttelberg and there is nothing more that need to be said for this topic.
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Wass85
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Re: Why Verstappen will NOT win in 2020

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dans79 wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:55 pm
Wass85 wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:47 pm
dans79 wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:30 pm
Hamilton was literally mentioned in the second post in this thread, and has been regularly since then.

Some people don't like it, but you are going to have a real hard time talking about anything F1 that isn't a technical topic, and not have Hamilton come into the discussion. It's no different than any other point in F1 history, when A driver was dominating. All other drivers are compared and contrasted to that driver, because he is the benchmark for that time period.
But this is specifically a Verstappen thread so I don't know why certain posters are getting excited when I and others post about him.
As I said, Lewis has been brought into the thread very early, and is literally mentioned 10's to dozens of times a page.

Also as i said, he is the benchmark and who Max is going to be compared to as long as he continues to race. Look at the WDC standings, Max would be leading if it wasn't for Lewis, he'd also probably have another win if it wasn't for Lewis.
Max is a thorn in Mercs side, if it wasn't for his DNF he would be breathing down Hamilton's neck who is in a superior car, the kid is driving out of his skin.

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Wouter
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Re: Why Verstappen will NOT win in 2020

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Moore77 wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 4:19 pm
Schuttelberg wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 2:49 pm
If, Hamilton has the best car, he will win. If Verstappen has it, he will. If, the two cars and teams are close, it's really anyone's game. It will depend on their form then and which team/driver combination makes lesser errors. It's pretty much as simple as that.
I have seen this post from Schuttelberg and there is nothing more that need to be said for this topic.
Exactly !!

dans79
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Re: Why Verstappen will NOT win in 2020

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Wass85 wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 4:21 pm
Max is a thorn in Mercs side, if it wasn't for his DNF he would be breathing down Hamilton's neck who is in a superior car, the kid is driving out of his skin.
I wouldn't say out of his skin. If anything he is doing the opposite, he is staying calm and collected and not overreaching. He is maximizing his points haul by staying within the limits of the car. If he ever wants a shot at a WDC, that is what he needs to do.
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aral
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Re: Why Verstappen will NOT win in 2020

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This thread has descended into a tit for tat name calling. All of which does nothing to add to the discussion. So, it is best to now close it down to avoid all this ridiculous aggro.