High Performance Road Cars VS Bikes.

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Bonker T
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Re: High Performance Road Cars VS Bikes.

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Here is another car vs bike on the Ring.

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Tim.Wright
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Re: High Performance Road Cars VS Bikes.

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It's a pretty simple equation. Bikes are faster in power limited conditions (throttle = 100%) and the cars are faster in grip limited conditions (throttle < 100%)
Not the engineer at Force India

Just_a_fan
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Re: High Performance Road Cars VS Bikes.

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Phil wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 10:59 am
J.A.W. wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 10:56 pm

No imagination required, the topic is about road machines, not G.P./Formula racing,
however, roadbikes were pulling ~1G in stopping tests ~1/2 a century ago, & since
the advent of disc brakes back then, certainly keep that braking level - sans fade
no matter how often it is applied - while any but super-expensive cars will have
their warning lights flashing - as their soft street pads are baking from heat-soak.
Flashing lights? This is just hilarious and has zero to do with braking ability. And if you are referring to flashing braking lights... ever heard of ABS? It’s due to traction limit while under braking.

Under most road legal speeds, braking ability is limited by traction, not brake caliper size or heat dissipation.

Do the math; force/weight by contact patch and tire grip levels. Also factor in CoG and weight transfer. In the end, you still have way more contact patch and mechanical grip in a car than a bike.
And the fact that no matter how hard you brake in a car, it doesn't rotate around the front axle and stick you face first in to the tarmac with the car on your back. Unlike bikes which can, and do, do exactly that.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

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Andres125sx
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Re: High Performance Road Cars VS Bikes.

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Bonker T wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 11:06 am
Here is another car vs bike on the Ring.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2976rRzb3s
a good one! =D>

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Andres125sx
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Re: High Performance Road Cars VS Bikes.

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Tim.Wright wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 11:53 am
It's a pretty simple equation. Bikes are faster in power limited conditions (throttle = 100%) and the cars are faster in grip limited conditions (throttle < 100%)
It is this simple, with the exception of straighter lines bikes can do on some corners wich are not too common on tracks but are on roads

But that´s when we´re talking about street cars and bikes with very different power/weight ratios, if you compare with a supercar or racing car with a more similar ratio (not even the same) cars solve its disadvantage and beats any bike fair and square, while a bike, even a MotoGP, can´t improve grip limited conditions that much so its disadvantage remains even when comparing best racing bikes with normal racing cars

J.A.W.
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Re: High Performance Road Cars VS Bikes.

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Phil wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 10:59 am
J.A.W. wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 10:56 pm

No imagination required, the topic is about road machines, not G.P./Formula racing,
however, roadbikes were pulling ~1G in stopping tests ~1/2 a century ago, & since
the advent of disc brakes back then, certainly keep that braking level - sans fade
no matter how often it is applied - while any but super-expensive cars will have
their warning lights flashing - as their soft street pads are baking from heat-soak.
Flashing lights? This is just hilarious and has zero to do with braking ability. And if you are referring to flashing braking lights... ever heard of ABS? It’s due to traction limit while under braking.

Under most road legal speeds, braking ability is limited by traction, not brake caliper size or heat dissipation.

Do the math; force/weight by contact patch and tire grip levels. Also factor in CoG and weight transfer. In the end, you still have way more contact patch and mechanical grip in a car than a bike.
Have you never driven a current road car hard enough to have the dash-console warning lights:
brake/ABS/stability control - light up urgently, cause a 'limp mode' response - meaning an expensive
dealer-check system recode? Its not so "hilarious". Those are the "flashing lights" I was referring to.

As for the maths, unless the car has real aero downforce, & is travelling fast enough to use it,
then the power-to-weight advantage of the bike trumps the car, esp' given the tyre adhesion
factor of modern sportsbike rubber, so by all means check the video/track records of speed/time,
comparing road going vehicles (even without taking traffic issues into account).

Sure, certain cars would have an advantage on rough, irregular or broken road surfaces,
like a rally special stage, yet the real-life traffic factor may still intrude here, too.
We are standing on the toes of Hobbits. So wear safety boots.

Just_a_fan
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Re: High Performance Road Cars VS Bikes.

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J.A.W. wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:19 pm
Phil wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 10:59 am

Flashing lights? This is just hilarious and has zero to do with braking ability. And if you are referring to flashing braking lights... ever heard of ABS? It’s due to traction limit while under braking.
Have you never driven a current road car hard enough to have the dash-console warning lights:
brake/ABS/stability control - light up urgently, cause a 'limp mode' response - meaning an expensive
dealer-check system recode? Its not so "hilarious". Those are the "flashing lights" I was referring to.

I've driven fast cars fast enough for long enough that the brakes cry "enough" and I've also had the tyres do likewise. I've never, ever, not once, driven a car so fast that the systems give up and throw error lights/codes.

Sorry, that's just made up silliness.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

J.A.W.
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Re: High Performance Road Cars VS Bikes.

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:46 am
J.A.W. wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:19 pm
Phil wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 10:59 am

Flashing lights? This is just hilarious and has zero to do with braking ability. And if you are referring to flashing braking lights... ever heard of ABS? It’s due to traction limit while under braking.
Have you never driven a current road car hard enough to have the dash-console warning lights:
brake/ABS/stability control - light up urgently, cause a 'limp mode' response - meaning an expensive
dealer-check system recode? Its not so "hilarious". Those are the "flashing lights" I was referring to.

I've driven fast cars fast enough for long enough that the brakes cry "enough" and I've also had the tyres do likewise. I've never, ever, not once, driven a car so fast that the systems give up and throw error lights/codes.

Sorry, that's just made up silliness.
"Silliness"? Ah, no..

Seems you've not thrashed a BMW car, in the last 20 years (esp' a big barge, or turbo) hard...

Whereas any 'superbike' of getting on for nearly twice that age,
didn't/wont, run out of brakes/tyres, on a tank of gas 'rinse/repeat',
'cept maybe, for a puncture, (& run-flat car tyres are pretty awful too).
We are standing on the toes of Hobbits. So wear safety boots.

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Phil
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Re: High Performance Road Cars VS Bikes.

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J.A.W. wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:19 pm
Have you never driven a current road car hard enough to have the dash-console warning lights:
brake/ABS/stability control - light up urgently, cause a 'limp mode' response - meaning an expensive
dealer-check system recode?
Yes.

And guess what, i actually track my car too and have shared the track with bikes at times. What about you?

Ps: my car that i track doesnt have stability control and it doesnt know “limp mode” either. I've also tracked a modern BMW and it certainly doesn't crash or go into any protection mode if driven right.
Last edited by Phil on Sat Jul 11, 2020 9:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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J.A.W.
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Re: High Performance Road Cars VS Bikes.

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Phil wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 8:11 am
J.A.W. wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:19 pm
Have you never driven a current road car hard enough to have the dash-console warning lights:
brake/ABS/stability control - light up urgently, cause a 'limp mode' response - meaning an expensive
dealer-check system recode?
Yes.

And guess what, i actually track my car too and have shared the track with bikes at times. What about you?

Ps: my car that i track doesnt have stability control and it doesnt know “limp mode”. :lol:
Of course, but the other way around - riding a bike, ('til it was banned here, due to fatal crashes).

I have driven 'tests' which have caused the dreaded 'Las Vegas strip' on BMW's, & laughed when
production-racers fall foul of the same issues (going 'limp'), how about you?
We are standing on the toes of Hobbits. So wear safety boots.

Jolle
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Re: High Performance Road Cars VS Bikes.

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J.A.W. wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 7:29 am
Just_a_fan wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:46 am
J.A.W. wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:19 pm


Have you never driven a current road car hard enough to have the dash-console warning lights:
brake/ABS/stability control - light up urgently, cause a 'limp mode' response - meaning an expensive
dealer-check system recode? Its not so "hilarious". Those are the "flashing lights" I was referring to.

I've driven fast cars fast enough for long enough that the brakes cry "enough" and I've also had the tyres do likewise. I've never, ever, not once, driven a car so fast that the systems give up and throw error lights/codes.

Sorry, that's just made up silliness.
"Silliness"? Ah, no..

Seems you've not thrashed a BMW car, in the last 20 years (esp' a big barge, or turbo) hard...

Whereas any 'superbike' of getting on for nearly twice that age,
didn't/wont, run out of brakes/tyres, on a tank of gas 'rinse/repeat',
'cept maybe, for a puncture, (& run-flat car tyres are pretty awful too).
Lol, I did. Many of them. But not trashed but raced.

If you drive a modern BMW into limp mode, take a driving lesson or two, the car is telling you something (not a joke). Apparently you can’t brake without using ABS on every corner, so the servo is draining the battery or have so bad throttle control that you overheat the cat trough bad ignition timing.

Lern to drive.

J.A.W.
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Re: High Performance Road Cars VS Bikes.

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Jolle wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 8:46 am
J.A.W. wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 7:29 am
Just_a_fan wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:46 am

I've driven fast cars fast enough for long enough that the brakes cry "enough" and I've also had the tyres do likewise. I've never, ever, not once, driven a car so fast that the systems give up and throw error lights/codes.

Sorry, that's just made up silliness.
"Silliness"? Ah, no..

Seems you've not thrashed a BMW car, in the last 20 years (esp' a big barge, or turbo) hard...

Whereas any 'superbike' of getting on for nearly twice that age,
didn't/wont, run out of brakes/tyres, on a tank of gas 'rinse/repeat',
'cept maybe, for a puncture, (& run-flat car tyres are pretty awful too).
Lol, I did. Many of them. But not trashed but raced.

If you drive a modern BMW into limp mode, take a driving lesson or two, the car is telling you something (not a joke). Apparently you can’t brake without using ABS on every corner, so the servo is draining the battery or have so bad throttle control that you overheat the cat trough bad ignition timing.

Lern to drive.
My Mercedes-Benz won't do it, under similar circumstances, but its a different breed of cat..
We are standing on the toes of Hobbits. So wear safety boots.

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Andres125sx
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Re: High Performance Road Cars VS Bikes.

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J.A.W. wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:19 pm
As for the maths, unless the car has real aero downforce, & is travelling fast enough to use it,
then the power-to-weight advantage of the bike trumps the car
Are you comparing top supercars with top superbikes? Or top superbikes with normal sport cars?

Looks like you´re comparing apples to oranges, but this is not new from you

63l8qrrfy6
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Re: High Performance Road Cars VS Bikes.

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My M2 can blow any pocketbike out of the water

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Big Tea
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Re: High Performance Road Cars VS Bikes.

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Mudflap wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:33 pm
My M2 can blow any pocketbike out of the water
I can beat it on a 50cc as long as I chose the course :twisted:
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